Comments on: How far should Lib Dems keep away from Labour?

By: MatGB

MatGB — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 22:39:43 +0000

Reading through the archives, IIRC the 400,ooo rejected ballots in the London were 2nd preference transfers that had nowhere to go. The number of actually spoilt ballots was negligible (I had a complete copy of the results spreadsheet, but it’s on the other, virus strewn and hopefully being fixed, PC).

By: Charlotte Gore

Charlotte Gore — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:56:43 +0000

I mean 0% equality of outcome, of course.

By: Jock

Jock — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:04:49 +0000

The Great Simpleton,

Yes, they are reported, at least at the count to the candidates and their agents. But they are usually a very small number (in the single figures even in a council ward) and are not usually reported any further than that. But if there were a significant number of spoiled papers in the context of the election concerned (such as if we could get 400 of our 900+ student residents in one ward to do it where they would not normally even bother voting at all) then it would be picked up and reported on more widely.

I imagine a fair number of the London ones Roger cited though were not so much spoiled as “ambiguous” – for example people putting two crosses rather than a first and second preference numbered.

If we had a formula though, and a campaign to get people who don’t normally vote to go along (or even to get a postal vote so they don’t have to worry about it on the day) and make it clear that they have some kind of a problem with the state of democracy in this country it would be taken much more seriously.

Jock

By: The Great Simpleton

The Great Simpleton — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:16:04 +0000

Charlotte,

When you talk about “the right balance between Liberty and Equality” do you mean equality of opportunity of equality of outcome?

Equality of outcome is the pernicious aim of Gordon Brown and his (New) Labour party. Equality of opportunity is surely something that every liberal/libertarian should aim for?

By: The Great Simpleton

The Great Simpleton — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:11:06 +0000

Roger,

“I agree with Jock.

It is important to ATTEND and if no choice exists, write “none of the above’ or spoil it. This means that they cannot hide behind Silence = Consent.

Spoilt ballots are counted and reported.”

Are you sure about that? I did that at the last EU elections and looked out for spoiled ballots and can assure you they weren’t reported in my area.

By: Joe Otten

Joe Otten — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:33:37 +0000

The awfulness of Labour says nothing about the Conservatives. Being far from Labour does not mean being close to the Conservatives.

I think Labour have abandoned equality anyway – except as a soundbite.

They represent a complex, shifting group of special interests, few or none of whom are among the worst off; while celebrating authoritarianism. And exactly the same can be said of the Conservatives.

By: Painfully Liberal

Painfully Liberal — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:57:59 +0000

Oh you certainly can’t predict a future Labour Government based on what they say, but you can see what they’ve done during their time in Government and assume that they’ll continue to do more of that. I don’t necessarily recommend that you do though, it’s certainly not a pleasant mental exercise.

By: Jock

Jock — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:48:10 +0000

To be fair, I’m not sure that we do know what to expect from a Labour government. Will the Prime Minister stay for a full term like he promised last time? Will they or won’t they increase top-up fees? Did they tell us they were likely to make 3000+ new criminal offences in 1997? Or tell us it would take them a whole term and then some to pass age of consent equality and to lose section 28? We know they did tell us to expect them to have eradicated (or was it halved?) child poverty by next year, so I guess we ought to have concluded that they would fail! And so on and so forth.

pfft – you can’t trust a politician these days even when he does have a “program” he can articulate!

By: Painfully Liberal

Painfully Liberal — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:27:48 +0000

My concern with the prospect of a Tory Government is that in the absense anything resembling a manifesto or clear statement of policy of philosophy, we’re reduced to a sort of Conservative party Kremlinology to try to guess which of the varies factions of the party are likely to hold sway in different areas (what the hell are we supposed to make of Domenic Grieve as shadow Home Secretary and Chris Grayling in Justice for example). There are significant sections of the Conservative party who hold some pretty repugnant views and it’s hard to imagine that Cameron will be able to avoid at least a fox hunting ban style nod to his activist base.

That said, we do know what to expect from a Labour Govenment and that’s quite enough for me to want them out. Actions and misdeeds must have consequences.

By: Tristan

Tristan — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 11:58:18 +0000

The prospect of a Tory government is only good in so far as they are not Labour and they are out of practice at being the boss party so they may be a bit incompetent for a bit.

Aside from that, expect more of the same, just with some different words and different perversions of liberal themes (Labour has ‘freedom’ meaning being monitored and spied upon, the Tories have ‘free markets’ meaning regulated in their interests for example).