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	<title>Comments on: Yay Equality!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://charlottegore.com/2009/04/28/yay-equality.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/04/28/yay-equality.html</link>
	<description>Free Trade and Free Minds. Politics for Reasonable People. Independent Political Blogging. Top 20 Blog. Libertarianism. Laser Kitties.</description>
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		<title>By: Tim W</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/04/28/yay-equality.html/comment-page-1#comment-2347</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=643#comment-2347</guid>
		<description>Spot on.
This Bill won&#039;t stop discrimination, only seek to blame firms for paying people different wages - there are a very wide range of factors leading up to that wage which will go utterly unrecognised, and the company will be blamed for any discrimination/different choices before they were involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spot on.<br />
This Bill won&#8217;t stop discrimination, only seek to blame firms for paying people different wages &#8211; there are a very wide range of factors leading up to that wage which will go utterly unrecognised, and the company will be blamed for any discrimination/different choices before they were involved.</p>
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		<title>By: Aisling</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/04/28/yay-equality.html/comment-page-1#comment-2327</link>
		<dc:creator>Aisling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 00:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=643#comment-2327</guid>
		<description>You should try writing a job advert these days it&#039;s an absolute minefield. The amount of bullshit involved in what you can or can&#039;t say is ludicrous, and it is directly due to legislation such as this. It misses the point, and instead of helping leaves people like me more worried about leaving myself open to legal trouble than finding the right people for the job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should try writing a job advert these days it&#8217;s an absolute minefield. The amount of bullshit involved in what you can or can&#8217;t say is ludicrous, and it is directly due to legislation such as this. It misses the point, and instead of helping leaves people like me more worried about leaving myself open to legal trouble than finding the right people for the job.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Cole</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/04/28/yay-equality.html/comment-page-1#comment-2321</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Cole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=643#comment-2321</guid>
		<description>Bravo. Finally some sense. This blog is excellent. I&#039;m amazed it&#039;s being written by a lib dem :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo. Finally some sense. This blog is excellent. I&#8217;m amazed it&#8217;s being written by a lib dem <img src='http://charlottegore.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Costigan Quist</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/04/28/yay-equality.html/comment-page-1#comment-2318</link>
		<dc:creator>Costigan Quist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=643#comment-2318</guid>
		<description>To quote Tom Lehrer

&lt;blockquote&gt;“The Army has carried the American ... ideal to its logical conclusion. Not only do they prohibit discrimination on the grounds of race, creed and color, but also on ability.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Discrimination is good if it&#039;s relevant.  Looking for an actor to play the part of an 18th century African slave?  Please discriminate on skin colour.  I really don&#039;t want to see Jeremy Clarkson blacking up to play the role.  Looking for an accountant?  Probably best not to worry about skin colour at all, if we&#039;re being honest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To quote Tom Lehrer</p>
<blockquote><p>“The Army has carried the American &#8230; ideal to its logical conclusion. Not only do they prohibit discrimination on the grounds of race, creed and color, but also on ability.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Discrimination is good if it&#8217;s relevant.  Looking for an actor to play the part of an 18th century African slave?  Please discriminate on skin colour.  I really don&#8217;t want to see Jeremy Clarkson blacking up to play the role.  Looking for an accountant?  Probably best not to worry about skin colour at all, if we&#8217;re being honest.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Hickey</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/04/28/yay-equality.html/comment-page-1#comment-2315</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Hickey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=643#comment-2315</guid>
		<description>Prejudice is the cause and can&#039;t be eradicated (within any reasonable timeframe at least) within any reasonable timescale, but government *can* take action to ameliorate the *results* - which may not help long-term but will help individuals short-term.

I&#039;ve not read through the bill, because I&#039;m at work, but from what I can tell from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.equalities.gov.uk/pdf/GEO_A Fairer Future- The Equality Bill and other action to make equality a reality.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; (that link may well break, as it&#039;s stupidly got spaces in...) the class-discrimination thing actually applies to Local Authorities providing services. The examples they give are things like:

&quot;A transport authority could review how accessible its services are. It finds residents from deprived neighbourhoods find it difficult to travel to the local hospital because of infrequent public transport, low car ownership rates and high parking costs.The authority decides to work in partnership with the hospital to develop a strategy to tackle this, which could include introducing a free or subsidised shuttle bus service to the hospital from pick up points around town.&quot;

I&#039;m in two minds about the positive discrimination aspects of the bill - I don&#039;t like it in principle, but in practice I work in an office with fifty-odd people working in it, of whom three are women, so I can see that it might be an idea sometimes, though on balance I&#039;m against. But as far as local authorities having a duty to try to improve access to services for those who might need them more but have more difficulty accessing them, I really can&#039;t see a problem there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prejudice is the cause and can&#8217;t be eradicated (within any reasonable timeframe at least) within any reasonable timescale, but government *can* take action to ameliorate the *results* &#8211; which may not help long-term but will help individuals short-term.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve not read through the bill, because I&#8217;m at work, but from what I can tell from <a href="http://www.equalities.gov.uk/pdf/GEO_A Fairer Future- The Equality Bill and other action to make equality a reality.pdf" rel="nofollow">this</a> (that link may well break, as it&#8217;s stupidly got spaces in&#8230;) the class-discrimination thing actually applies to Local Authorities providing services. The examples they give are things like:</p>
<p>&#8220;A transport authority could review how accessible its services are. It finds residents from deprived neighbourhoods find it difficult to travel to the local hospital because of infrequent public transport, low car ownership rates and high parking costs.The authority decides to work in partnership with the hospital to develop a strategy to tackle this, which could include introducing a free or subsidised shuttle bus service to the hospital from pick up points around town.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in two minds about the positive discrimination aspects of the bill &#8211; I don&#8217;t like it in principle, but in practice I work in an office with fifty-odd people working in it, of whom three are women, so I can see that it might be an idea sometimes, though on balance I&#8217;m against. But as far as local authorities having a duty to try to improve access to services for those who might need them more but have more difficulty accessing them, I really can&#8217;t see a problem there.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurence Boyce</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/04/28/yay-equality.html/comment-page-1#comment-2313</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurence Boyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=643#comment-2313</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Prejudice can only be fought through voluntary means. It is through hard work of non-state actors that prejudice against most ethnic groups is unacceptable to the majority.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Hmm, I don&#039;t quite agree with that Tristan. Can &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; be fought through voluntary means? Who says so? I would be happy for prejudice to be fought from every direction. And state actors have a major role to play, surely - not merely through legislation, but also in showing personal leadership.

If you&#039;re telling me that this particular piece of legislation is bollock-brained, then I believe you. That said, I&#039;m hoping for an amendment regarding faith-based school selection. Let&#039;s see if parliament can go where Lib Dem conference feared to tread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Prejudice can only be fought through voluntary means. It is through hard work of non-state actors that prejudice against most ethnic groups is unacceptable to the majority.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Hmm, I don&#8217;t quite agree with that Tristan. Can <i>only</i> be fought through voluntary means? Who says so? I would be happy for prejudice to be fought from every direction. And state actors have a major role to play, surely &#8211; not merely through legislation, but also in showing personal leadership.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re telling me that this particular piece of legislation is bollock-brained, then I believe you. That said, I&#8217;m hoping for an amendment regarding faith-based school selection. Let&#8217;s see if parliament can go where Lib Dem conference feared to tread.</p>
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		<title>By: Tristan</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/04/28/yay-equality.html/comment-page-1#comment-2311</link>
		<dc:creator>Tristan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=643#comment-2311</guid>
		<description>@Pete
Prejudice cannot be eradicated at the barrel of a gun however, which is what government seeks to do.

Prejudice can only be fought through voluntary means. It is through hard work of non-state actors that prejudice against most ethnic groups is unacceptable to the majority, the same goes for sexuality and gender - although we still have a long way to go.

The only place government comes in is through repealing legally sanctioned prejudice (of which there is a significant amount still in existence) as was the case with the illegality of homosexuality and many other aspects.

Today we still have state sanctioned prejudice against immigrants, gypsies, the &#039;mentally ill&#039;, homosexuality and others, yet the government insists on tying us up with regulation which will only hurt those its meant to help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Pete<br />
Prejudice cannot be eradicated at the barrel of a gun however, which is what government seeks to do.</p>
<p>Prejudice can only be fought through voluntary means. It is through hard work of non-state actors that prejudice against most ethnic groups is unacceptable to the majority, the same goes for sexuality and gender &#8211; although we still have a long way to go.</p>
<p>The only place government comes in is through repealing legally sanctioned prejudice (of which there is a significant amount still in existence) as was the case with the illegality of homosexuality and many other aspects.</p>
<p>Today we still have state sanctioned prejudice against immigrants, gypsies, the &#8216;mentally ill&#8217;, homosexuality and others, yet the government insists on tying us up with regulation which will only hurt those its meant to help.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Huntbach</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/04/28/yay-equality.html/comment-page-1#comment-2310</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Huntbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=643#comment-2310</guid>
		<description>I have a lot of sympathy with Charlotte on this one.

I haven&#039;t looked at what the Bill actually demands of people, but it sounds like the sort of thing that has good intentions but in reality means more pointless bureaucracy, form-filling and box-ticking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a lot of sympathy with Charlotte on this one.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t looked at what the Bill actually demands of people, but it sounds like the sort of thing that has good intentions but in reality means more pointless bureaucracy, form-filling and box-ticking.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlotte Gore</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/04/28/yay-equality.html/comment-page-1#comment-2309</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlotte Gore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=643#comment-2309</guid>
		<description>&lt;span style=&quot;text-decoration:line-through&quot;&gt;Yes, turned out she just meant &quot;but horribly this isn&#039;t true if the woman&#039;s poor and the man&#039;s rich!! OH NOES!&quot;&lt;/span&gt;

Which is true, but it&#039;s also true that rich people live longer than poor people, full stop. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s &#039;worse&#039; when poor women are dying before rich men. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="text-decoration:line-through">Yes, turned out she just meant &#8220;but horribly this isn&#8217;t true if the woman&#8217;s poor and the man&#8217;s rich!! OH NOES!&#8221;</span></p>
<p>Which is true, but it&#8217;s also true that rich people live longer than poor people, full stop. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s &#8216;worse&#8217; when poor women are dying before rich men.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Otten</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/04/28/yay-equality.html/comment-page-1#comment-2308</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Otten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=643#comment-2308</guid>
		<description>I think it was Harriet Harman talking about this bill on the radio, who mentioned that women have a greater life expectancy than men, in passing on the way to some point about pay or pensions I think.

However for a giddy moment I thought she was about to suggest a diversion of healthcare resources away from women, towards men, in the name of equality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it was Harriet Harman talking about this bill on the radio, who mentioned that women have a greater life expectancy than men, in passing on the way to some point about pay or pensions I think.</p>
<p>However for a giddy moment I thought she was about to suggest a diversion of healthcare resources away from women, towards men, in the name of equality.</p>
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