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	<title>Comments on: Taking Stability Literally</title>
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	<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/05/23/taking-stability-literally.html</link>
	<description>Free Trade and Free Minds. Politics for Reasonable People. Independent Political Blogging. Top 20 Blog. Libertarianism. Laser Kitties.</description>
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		<title>By: Niklas Smith</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/05/23/taking-stability-literally.html/comment-page-1#comment-3762</link>
		<dc:creator>Niklas Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 21:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1024#comment-3762</guid>
		<description>Slightly off topic, but I found this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj2ar5-eRMY&quot; title=&quot;The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand: The Simpsons Version&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wonderfully uplifting clip&lt;/a&gt; from The Simpsons through &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.johannorberg.net/?page=displayblog&amp;month=5&amp;year=2009#3182&quot; title=&quot;The Minoans and The Simpsons&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Johan Norberg&#039;s blog&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fountainhead&quot; title=&quot;The Fountainhead&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Howard Roark&lt;/a&gt; certainly didn&#039;t take stability (or more precisely conformism) literally!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slightly off topic, but I found this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj2ar5-eRMY" title="The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand: The Simpsons Version" rel="nofollow">wonderfully uplifting clip</a> from The Simpsons through <a href="http://www.johannorberg.net/?page=displayblog&amp;month=5&amp;year=2009#3182" title="The Minoans and The Simpsons" rel="nofollow">Johan Norberg&#8217;s blog</a>.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fountainhead" title="The Fountainhead" rel="nofollow">Howard Roark</a> certainly didn&#8217;t take stability (or more precisely conformism) literally!</p>
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		<title>By: measured</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/05/23/taking-stability-literally.html/comment-page-1#comment-3753</link>
		<dc:creator>measured</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 16:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1024#comment-3753</guid>
		<description>I like this post, Charlotte.

Does this suggest the B of E has not already being doing this? Does it suggest that although independent, the B of E has not been following instructions?? I think it is not wise to codify this sort of thing as all the other players in the market, some of whom have far more weight to throw around than the B of E, will just see the B of E coming. Oh, and does it mean we should buy back all the gold reserves that were scandalously sold at the lowest gold price to achieve stability? 

It will be very interesting if the B of E does refuse &#039;to print&#039; the money the government requires; stability has different meanings to different players.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like this post, Charlotte.</p>
<p>Does this suggest the B of E has not already being doing this? Does it suggest that although independent, the B of E has not been following instructions?? I think it is not wise to codify this sort of thing as all the other players in the market, some of whom have far more weight to throw around than the B of E, will just see the B of E coming. Oh, and does it mean we should buy back all the gold reserves that were scandalously sold at the lowest gold price to achieve stability? </p>
<p>It will be very interesting if the B of E does refuse &#8216;to print&#8217; the money the government requires; stability has different meanings to different players.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Otten</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/05/23/taking-stability-literally.html/comment-page-1#comment-3712</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Otten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 23:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1024#comment-3712</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, no I don&#039;t think that is what is meant by stability. Surely it is more the sort of thing that if you expect interest rates, exchange rates, etc, to stay pretty much where they are in the medium term, you will be a lot more confident in making investments than if you thought they would go all over the place.

What I thought you might be alluding to - and this would be interesting - is the tension between creative destruction, as according to von Mises, and plain old destructive destruction. My hunch is that most of the time we can&#039;t tell the two apart, and that therefore people take a more positive or more negative view of instability generally, depending on their attitude towards von Mises. Rather than going to the effort of looking at the empirical facts of the actual destruction in question, which is hard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, no I don&#8217;t think that is what is meant by stability. Surely it is more the sort of thing that if you expect interest rates, exchange rates, etc, to stay pretty much where they are in the medium term, you will be a lot more confident in making investments than if you thought they would go all over the place.</p>
<p>What I thought you might be alluding to &#8211; and this would be interesting &#8211; is the tension between creative destruction, as according to von Mises, and plain old destructive destruction. My hunch is that most of the time we can&#8217;t tell the two apart, and that therefore people take a more positive or more negative view of instability generally, depending on their attitude towards von Mises. Rather than going to the effort of looking at the empirical facts of the actual destruction in question, which is hard.</p>
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		<title>By: DavidNcl</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/05/23/taking-stability-literally.html/comment-page-1#comment-3703</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidNcl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 17:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1024#comment-3703</guid>
		<description>:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://charlottegore.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Stu</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/05/23/taking-stability-literally.html/comment-page-1#comment-3701</link>
		<dc:creator>Stu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 17:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1024#comment-3701</guid>
		<description>Woah there, David. This is the &lt;em&gt;internet&lt;/em&gt;! We don&#039;t do that here...

As for the reasons &lt;em&gt;why&lt;/em&gt; we don&#039;t, perhaps I should refer you to a recent piece on The Register on the subject, which linked to Engadget&#039;s piece concerning a Guardian article which followed up on a survey conducted by Alexa...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woah there, David. This is the <em>internet</em>! We don&#8217;t do that here&#8230;</p>
<p>As for the reasons <em>why</em> we don&#8217;t, perhaps I should refer you to a recent piece on The Register on the subject, which linked to Engadget&#8217;s piece concerning a Guardian article which followed up on a survey conducted by Alexa&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: DavidNcl</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/05/23/taking-stability-literally.html/comment-page-1#comment-3700</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidNcl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 16:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1024#comment-3700</guid>
		<description>Can&#039;t you just say what you *think* rather than refering? What are *your* thoughts? What do *you* belive?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t you just say what you *think* rather than refering? What are *your* thoughts? What do *you* belive?</p>
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		<title>By: Trevox</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/05/23/taking-stability-literally.html/comment-page-1#comment-3697</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 15:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1024#comment-3697</guid>
		<description>The best treatise I have ever read on the unsustainability of high economic growth rates is in the book &quot;Enough Is Enough&quot; by John V. Taylor. Alright, it is written from a Cleric&#039;s perspective, but rings true nonetheless.  

More recently, I consider Gordon Brown to have given plenty of practical demonstration.

See also John Madely&#039;s article in The Guardian at http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/31/face-to-faith-john-madeley</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best treatise I have ever read on the unsustainability of high economic growth rates is in the book &#8220;Enough Is Enough&#8221; by John V. Taylor. Alright, it is written from a Cleric&#8217;s perspective, but rings true nonetheless.  </p>
<p>More recently, I consider Gordon Brown to have given plenty of practical demonstration.</p>
<p>See also John Madely&#8217;s article in The Guardian at <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/31/face-to-faith-john-madeley" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/31/face-to-faith-john-madeley</a></p>
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		<title>By: DavidNcl</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/05/23/taking-stability-literally.html/comment-page-1#comment-3695</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidNcl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 13:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1024#comment-3695</guid>
		<description>(I realise this is futile)
 
I see why negative growth is bad. It has been demonstrated repeatedly that you have to use the most brutal means to achieve negative growth in the long term (see for example Collectivist Dung Heap Number Six).
 
Zero growth is impossible since it implies accurate (or any) control of the economy and this is impossible because because of fundamental epistemological problems (as Hayek explained at length).
 
But why is high growth demonstrably unsustainable? When and where was that demonstration?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(I realise this is futile)</p>
<p>I see why negative growth is bad. It has been demonstrated repeatedly that you have to use the most brutal means to achieve negative growth in the long term (see for example Collectivist Dung Heap Number Six).</p>
<p>Zero growth is impossible since it implies accurate (or any) control of the economy and this is impossible because because of fundamental epistemological problems (as Hayek explained at length).</p>
<p>But why is high growth demonstrably unsustainable? When and where was that demonstration?</p>
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		<title>By: Trevox</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/05/23/taking-stability-literally.html/comment-page-1#comment-3672</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 00:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1024#comment-3672</guid>
		<description>One word I&#039;d introduce into this thread is &quot;sustainable&quot;. Given that negative growth is bad and zero growth impossible, high growth is demonstrably unsustainable. We will only see equity and equanimity amongst populations when all are enjoying similar modest rates of economic growth. There will always be losers when growth rates vary between countries. Sustainable growth is what is needed - that is probably around the 2% level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One word I&#8217;d introduce into this thread is &#8220;sustainable&#8221;. Given that negative growth is bad and zero growth impossible, high growth is demonstrably unsustainable. We will only see equity and equanimity amongst populations when all are enjoying similar modest rates of economic growth. There will always be losers when growth rates vary between countries. Sustainable growth is what is needed &#8211; that is probably around the 2% level.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/05/23/taking-stability-literally.html/comment-page-1#comment-3667</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 20:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1024#comment-3667</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;&quot;If the Bank of England were to interpret this instruction literally, one would expect them to use any means necessary to keep growth at 0%&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

I would do no such thing. Financial systems, the overall economy, its specific growth rate at a moment in time, and the long term growth rate are all different things. If the Bank became so confused as to forget that a primary goal of having a stable financial industry is positive long term economic growth it would be a scandal.

A stable system is one that does not go wildly out of control when subjected to external forces, and indeed subject to minor forces tends to return to its initial state (in the case of an economy, that would be a state of long term growth). So for instance, it is important that we are not vulnerable to economic warfare (or indeed just other countries running themselves badly). A fluid, growing market economy is the best defense. 

Historically, market economies do not demonstrate &quot;wild swings&quot; - these do happen regularly but less frequently than the business cycle itself. Bear in mind that chaos is not the enemy of stability you might think. It is when the chaos is reduced, for instance through interconnections between large entities, or asset bubbles growing out of herd behaviour, or executives falling victim to agent principal issues, that problems happen. We find that the apparent chaos is in fact a fragile rigidity that reveals itself in an utterly &lt;i&gt;predictable&lt;/i&gt; fashion. 

As long as the Bank keeps to the dictionary definitions of stability, as compared to a simplistic or ideological one as you suggest, it is not a bad goal. Good things happen when banking is boring, dull, and predictable. It is when it tries to get overly innovative that the business cycle turns into a financial crisis.

Leave the big risk taking to the entrepreneur.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;If the Bank of England were to interpret this instruction literally, one would expect them to use any means necessary to keep growth at 0%&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I would do no such thing. Financial systems, the overall economy, its specific growth rate at a moment in time, and the long term growth rate are all different things. If the Bank became so confused as to forget that a primary goal of having a stable financial industry is positive long term economic growth it would be a scandal.</p>
<p>A stable system is one that does not go wildly out of control when subjected to external forces, and indeed subject to minor forces tends to return to its initial state (in the case of an economy, that would be a state of long term growth). So for instance, it is important that we are not vulnerable to economic warfare (or indeed just other countries running themselves badly). A fluid, growing market economy is the best defense. </p>
<p>Historically, market economies do not demonstrate &#8220;wild swings&#8221; &#8211; these do happen regularly but less frequently than the business cycle itself. Bear in mind that chaos is not the enemy of stability you might think. It is when the chaos is reduced, for instance through interconnections between large entities, or asset bubbles growing out of herd behaviour, or executives falling victim to agent principal issues, that problems happen. We find that the apparent chaos is in fact a fragile rigidity that reveals itself in an utterly <i>predictable</i> fashion. </p>
<p>As long as the Bank keeps to the dictionary definitions of stability, as compared to a simplistic or ideological one as you suggest, it is not a bad goal. Good things happen when banking is boring, dull, and predictable. It is when it tries to get overly innovative that the business cycle turns into a financial crisis.</p>
<p>Leave the big risk taking to the entrepreneur.</p>
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