<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Charlotte Gore MP? Let&#8217;s hope not.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://charlottegore.com/2009/06/25/charlotte-gore-mp-lets-hope-not.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/06/25/charlotte-gore-mp-lets-hope-not.html</link>
	<description>Free Trade and Free Minds. Politics for Reasonable People. Independent Political Blogging. Top 20 Blog. Libertarianism. Laser Kitties.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:35:16 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: picture image</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/06/25/charlotte-gore-mp-lets-hope-not.html/comment-page-2#comment-10100</link>
		<dc:creator>picture image</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 02:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1186#comment-10100</guid>
		<description>Thankyou for sharing mate, I? m going to learn from it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thankyou for sharing mate, I? m going to learn from it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Nikel</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/06/25/charlotte-gore-mp-lets-hope-not.html/comment-page-2#comment-5343</link>
		<dc:creator>David Nikel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1186#comment-5343</guid>
		<description>Go for it Charlotte</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go for it Charlotte</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anton Howes</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/06/25/charlotte-gore-mp-lets-hope-not.html/comment-page-2#comment-5279</link>
		<dc:creator>Anton Howes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1186#comment-5279</guid>
		<description>Alix, I&#039;d argue that it&#039;s about how those ideas are presented.
If they can be shown as being beneficial to many people, or provoke the &quot;huh, that&#039;s quite clever, why haven&#039;t we done that?&quot; response, then it can be done. 

I reckon one of the best approaches is to show how libertarian/liberal ideas can help those under the worst circumstances, or at least contrast them with possible bad effects from illiberal policy. As Charlotte&#039;s &quot;quotations&quot; and Geoffrey Payne&#039;s comment show us, it&#039;s important to present the ideas as being acceptable. We can&#039;t just say Liberal = Good, Illiberal = Bad, but explain why liberal policies can sometimes achieve better outcomes, even if they may be in the long-run.

Ideologies perhaps by their nature get taken for granted by their proponents, and will become laden with jargon and other ideas that many people simply hadn&#039;t bothered to look up before. As long as you take a step back and explain what&#039;s actually going on, then showing that some policy may be better than another really is very simple. A decent liberal message ought to be easily understood and agreed with by someone in a pub, or at a school to pass the simplicity test.

I&#039;d say that the public isn&#039;t exactly gagging for it, but liberal ideas can be very easily explained, and people like to be left alone from interference once in a while, whether that&#039;s from a boss, a parent, another individual, or even the state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alix, I&#8217;d argue that it&#8217;s about how those ideas are presented.<br />
If they can be shown as being beneficial to many people, or provoke the &#8220;huh, that&#8217;s quite clever, why haven&#8217;t we done that?&#8221; response, then it can be done. </p>
<p>I reckon one of the best approaches is to show how libertarian/liberal ideas can help those under the worst circumstances, or at least contrast them with possible bad effects from illiberal policy. As Charlotte&#8217;s &#8220;quotations&#8221; and Geoffrey Payne&#8217;s comment show us, it&#8217;s important to present the ideas as being acceptable. We can&#8217;t just say Liberal = Good, Illiberal = Bad, but explain why liberal policies can sometimes achieve better outcomes, even if they may be in the long-run.</p>
<p>Ideologies perhaps by their nature get taken for granted by their proponents, and will become laden with jargon and other ideas that many people simply hadn&#8217;t bothered to look up before. As long as you take a step back and explain what&#8217;s actually going on, then showing that some policy may be better than another really is very simple. A decent liberal message ought to be easily understood and agreed with by someone in a pub, or at a school to pass the simplicity test.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say that the public isn&#8217;t exactly gagging for it, but liberal ideas can be very easily explained, and people like to be left alone from interference once in a while, whether that&#8217;s from a boss, a parent, another individual, or even the state.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alix</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/06/25/charlotte-gore-mp-lets-hope-not.html/comment-page-2#comment-5276</link>
		<dc:creator>Alix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1186#comment-5276</guid>
		<description>[Comes in late]

This is very interesting, because I have been confidently told at various times in the past by you, Mark Littlewood and Anton Howes that the public was just gagging for a party to come out with a true libertarian message, and they&#039;d all flood after it once it was there. I&#039;ve generally taken the view this was wishful thinking, because if I agree with something, it is a pretty safe bet the majority don&#039;t, and the presence of a critical mass of opinion in a clever corner of the internet tells you as much about wider societal opinion as a butterfly can tell you about earthquakes.

And here you&#039;re dolefully suggesting it&#039;s pretty much certain that the libertarian message &lt;i&gt;won&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; work at the ballot box. So which is it? As Geoffrey Payne suggests, you can&#039;t have it both ways.

This is important, because we&#039;ve got to go about advancing a liberal-libertarian agenda in a way which acknowledges realities, including e.g. the existence of Geoffrey Payne. Going purely on ballpark figures of past intellectual/political behavioural change, it will take at least fifteen years for libertarian ideas and debates to penetrate wider society, I reckon - and that&#039;s if we do it right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Comes in late]</p>
<p>This is very interesting, because I have been confidently told at various times in the past by you, Mark Littlewood and Anton Howes that the public was just gagging for a party to come out with a true libertarian message, and they&#8217;d all flood after it once it was there. I&#8217;ve generally taken the view this was wishful thinking, because if I agree with something, it is a pretty safe bet the majority don&#8217;t, and the presence of a critical mass of opinion in a clever corner of the internet tells you as much about wider societal opinion as a butterfly can tell you about earthquakes.</p>
<p>And here you&#8217;re dolefully suggesting it&#8217;s pretty much certain that the libertarian message <i>won&#8217;t</i> work at the ballot box. So which is it? As Geoffrey Payne suggests, you can&#8217;t have it both ways.</p>
<p>This is important, because we&#8217;ve got to go about advancing a liberal-libertarian agenda in a way which acknowledges realities, including e.g. the existence of Geoffrey Payne. Going purely on ballpark figures of past intellectual/political behavioural change, it will take at least fifteen years for libertarian ideas and debates to penetrate wider society, I reckon &#8211; and that&#8217;s if we do it right.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: chris g</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/06/25/charlotte-gore-mp-lets-hope-not.html/comment-page-2#comment-5254</link>
		<dc:creator>chris g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1186#comment-5254</guid>
		<description>You can read my manifesto here, get back to me on Twitter with anything you agree or disagree with.

http://www.the-latest.com/my-manifesto-for-change</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can read my manifesto here, get back to me on Twitter with anything you agree or disagree with.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.the-latest.com/my-manifesto-for-change" rel="nofollow">http://www.the-latest.com/my-manifesto-for-change</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cabalamat</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/06/25/charlotte-gore-mp-lets-hope-not.html/comment-page-2#comment-5243</link>
		<dc:creator>Cabalamat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1186#comment-5243</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;d make a pretty good MP -- you&#039;ve got opinions (mostly good ones), you&#039;re not afraid to say them, and you&#039;re not likely to become mere lobby fodder meekly doing whatever the whips tell you to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;d make a pretty good MP &#8212; you&#8217;ve got opinions (mostly good ones), you&#8217;re not afraid to say them, and you&#8217;re not likely to become mere lobby fodder meekly doing whatever the whips tell you to.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lord T</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/06/25/charlotte-gore-mp-lets-hope-not.html/comment-page-2#comment-5242</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1186#comment-5242</guid>
		<description>With those policies do you actually seriously consider yourself a LibDem?   As suggested before you would be better with a party that actually has your policies for themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With those policies do you actually seriously consider yourself a LibDem?   As suggested before you would be better with a party that actually has your policies for themselves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Leon Greenwell</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/06/25/charlotte-gore-mp-lets-hope-not.html/comment-page-1#comment-5228</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon Greenwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1186#comment-5228</guid>
		<description>The attraction of the Lib-Dems is that we have the techniques that work - ie a functioning Constitution

It is early days yet, a lot of idealists are, I believe, going to find themselves weeded about as &lt;i&gt;realpolitik&lt;i&gt; looms

As long as you&#039;ll support the development of Parish Councils......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The attraction of the Lib-Dems is that we have the techniques that work &#8211; ie a functioning Constitution</p>
<p>It is early days yet, a lot of idealists are, I believe, going to find themselves weeded about as <i>realpolitik</i><i> looms</p>
<p>As long as you&#8217;ll support the development of Parish Councils&#8230;&#8230;</i></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank Davis</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/06/25/charlotte-gore-mp-lets-hope-not.html/comment-page-1#comment-5227</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1186#comment-5227</guid>
		<description>If people like you don&#039;t run for office, then we all know who will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If people like you don&#8217;t run for office, then we all know who will.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Laurence Boyce</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/06/25/charlotte-gore-mp-lets-hope-not.html/comment-page-1#comment-5221</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurence Boyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1186#comment-5221</guid>
		<description>I think the point is, Geoffrey, that we make ourselves electable through being bland and inoffensive. &lt;i&gt;Neither&lt;/i&gt; one thing, &lt;i&gt;nor&lt;/i&gt; the other, but somewhere in between, as Paddy Ashdown used to say on &lt;i&gt;Spitting Image&lt;/i&gt;. And that ploy has even worked reasonably well, especially when the other parties are in trouble. But it can only take us so far and, in particular, it will &lt;i&gt;never ever&lt;/i&gt; take us to power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the point is, Geoffrey, that we make ourselves electable through being bland and inoffensive. <i>Neither</i> one thing, <i>nor</i> the other, but somewhere in between, as Paddy Ashdown used to say on <i>Spitting Image</i>. And that ploy has even worked reasonably well, especially when the other parties are in trouble. But it can only take us so far and, in particular, it will <i>never ever</i> take us to power.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
