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	<title>Comments on: Who&#8217;d want to be Superman?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://charlottegore.com/2009/07/18/whos-want-to-be-superman.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/07/18/whos-want-to-be-superman.html</link>
	<description>Free Trade and Free Minds. Politics for Reasonable People. Independent Political Blogging. Top 20 Blog. Libertarianism. Laser Kitties.</description>
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		<title>By: Charlotte Gore</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/07/18/whos-want-to-be-superman.html/comment-page-1#comment-5718</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlotte Gore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1254#comment-5718</guid>
		<description>Woo! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woo! <img src='http://charlottegore.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Joe Otten</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/07/18/whos-want-to-be-superman.html/comment-page-1#comment-5717</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Otten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1254#comment-5717</guid>
		<description>A good point Charlotte. The ethics of a choice depend precisely on how it affects other people. The terms selfish and selfless relate to how a choice might affect ourself, and are therefore irrelevant to the ethics of the case. Ethics do not help us determine our own interests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good point Charlotte. The ethics of a choice depend precisely on how it affects other people. The terms selfish and selfless relate to how a choice might affect ourself, and are therefore irrelevant to the ethics of the case. Ethics do not help us determine our own interests.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlotte Gore</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/07/18/whos-want-to-be-superman.html/comment-page-1#comment-5716</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlotte Gore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1254#comment-5716</guid>
		<description>Yes, people do automatically assume that selfish is &#039;hurting people&#039; and unselfish, or selfless, is &#039;helping people&#039; but that just makes it intellectually lazy at best, and &#039;crypto-dogmatic&#039; at worst ;)

From a debating point of view, selfish and selfless are only really useful when you mean them in their literal meaning. Someone is being selfless when they deliberately stay in a job that they hate without any justification. That person succumbs to depression and anxiety. The other people that work with them fear and dread being near them, because they&#039;re going to get their heads bitten off or have to listen to the same massive rants over and over again.

They&#039;re being selfless, but all they&#039;re doing is hurting everyone else and importantly they&#039;re hurting themselves too. The selfish thing for that person to do would be to leave the job and go find another one, one they actually like. 

The important bit is working out who and how someone is benefiting in deciding whether something is a &#039;net good&#039; or a &#039;net bad&#039; such as these things can be objectively evaluated. Whether or not someone is being selfish or selfless when they act is completely irrelevant.  

If something is hurting someone then just say so, and leave the &quot;words that mean too much to be useful to anyone&quot; (like &#039;liberal&#039;) well alone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, people do automatically assume that selfish is &#8216;hurting people&#8217; and unselfish, or selfless, is &#8216;helping people&#8217; but that just makes it intellectually lazy at best, and &#8216;crypto-dogmatic&#8217; at worst <img src='http://charlottegore.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>From a debating point of view, selfish and selfless are only really useful when you mean them in their literal meaning. Someone is being selfless when they deliberately stay in a job that they hate without any justification. That person succumbs to depression and anxiety. The other people that work with them fear and dread being near them, because they&#8217;re going to get their heads bitten off or have to listen to the same massive rants over and over again.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re being selfless, but all they&#8217;re doing is hurting everyone else and importantly they&#8217;re hurting themselves too. The selfish thing for that person to do would be to leave the job and go find another one, one they actually like. </p>
<p>The important bit is working out who and how someone is benefiting in deciding whether something is a &#8216;net good&#8217; or a &#8216;net bad&#8217; such as these things can be objectively evaluated. Whether or not someone is being selfish or selfless when they act is completely irrelevant.  </p>
<p>If something is hurting someone then just say so, and leave the &#8220;words that mean too much to be useful to anyone&#8221; (like &#8216;liberal&#8217;) well alone?</p>
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		<title>By: John Scott</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/07/18/whos-want-to-be-superman.html/comment-page-1#comment-5714</link>
		<dc:creator>John Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1254#comment-5714</guid>
		<description>&quot;So it remains useful to use words like selfish and unselfish naturally to distinguish between different kinds of motivations, according to how an individual feels about helping or hurting other people.&quot; 

I think your understanding of the natural usage of selfish is different to mine (and as for the idea of a &quot;natural&quot; use of language...). As far as I can tell, people use the word &quot;selfish&quot; when they want to use pejorative language to describe someone else&#039;s actions or thoughts. My understanding, instead, suggests that there is nothing wrong with acting for oneself and, I agree, that is how everyone acts. 

Much better to accept that and move on. People are selfish bastards and yet somehow that lets us all to rub along. The best part about Libertarianism is that how someone thinks (let alone feels) is irrelevant to the rest of us, provided how they act does not infringe on other people&#039;s liberty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So it remains useful to use words like selfish and unselfish naturally to distinguish between different kinds of motivations, according to how an individual feels about helping or hurting other people.&#8221; </p>
<p>I think your understanding of the natural usage of selfish is different to mine (and as for the idea of a &#8220;natural&#8221; use of language&#8230;). As far as I can tell, people use the word &#8220;selfish&#8221; when they want to use pejorative language to describe someone else&#8217;s actions or thoughts. My understanding, instead, suggests that there is nothing wrong with acting for oneself and, I agree, that is how everyone acts. </p>
<p>Much better to accept that and move on. People are selfish bastards and yet somehow that lets us all to rub along. The best part about Libertarianism is that how someone thinks (let alone feels) is irrelevant to the rest of us, provided how they act does not infringe on other people&#8217;s liberty.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Otten</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/07/18/whos-want-to-be-superman.html/comment-page-1#comment-5707</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Otten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1254#comment-5707</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;In essence, all charitable giving is fundamentally selfish, it’s just people are unwilling to accept this.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, when you use the word selfish in a way that robs it of all meaning. 

Clearly all my acts result directly from my desires, values and intentions, and not somebody else&#039;s. In this sense all acts are selfish, and so describing an act as selfish in this sense tells us nothing about it.

So it remains useful to use words like selfish and unselfish naturally to distinguish between different kinds of motivations, according to how an individual feels about helping or hurting other people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>In essence, all charitable giving is fundamentally selfish, it’s just people are unwilling to accept this.</i></p>
<p>Yes, when you use the word selfish in a way that robs it of all meaning. </p>
<p>Clearly all my acts result directly from my desires, values and intentions, and not somebody else&#8217;s. In this sense all acts are selfish, and so describing an act as selfish in this sense tells us nothing about it.</p>
<p>So it remains useful to use words like selfish and unselfish naturally to distinguish between different kinds of motivations, according to how an individual feels about helping or hurting other people.</p>
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		<title>By: MorpH</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/07/18/whos-want-to-be-superman.html/comment-page-1#comment-5700</link>
		<dc:creator>MorpH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1254#comment-5700</guid>
		<description>Perhaps he&#039;d be something like this... http://www.attackcartoons.com/index.php?topic=LibertarianMan 
(i.e. one joke which is occasionally funny)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps he&#8217;d be something like this&#8230; <a href="http://www.attackcartoons.com/index.php?topic=LibertarianMan" rel="nofollow">http://www.attackcartoons.com/index.php?topic=LibertarianMan</a><br />
(i.e. one joke which is occasionally funny)</p>
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		<title>By: Charlotte Gore</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/07/18/whos-want-to-be-superman.html/comment-page-1#comment-5699</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlotte Gore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 08:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1254#comment-5699</guid>
		<description>Ah, yes, very true :)

I obviously didn&#039;t think about this one enough before posting.

Next up: Socialist Batman!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, yes, very true <img src='http://charlottegore.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I obviously didn&#8217;t think about this one enough before posting.</p>
<p>Next up: Socialist Batman!</p>
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		<title>By: John Scott</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/07/18/whos-want-to-be-superman.html/comment-page-1#comment-5697</link>
		<dc:creator>John Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 06:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1254#comment-5697</guid>
		<description>Actually a libertarian superman might choose to do things due to obtaining a warm and fuzzy feeling from so doing. He is then behaving rationally - he obtains what he desires, and other people get what they want. It&#039;s just that the starting point for his reasoning is an incalculable and atypical desire to help other people without reward. Being a libertarian does not mean you elevate a crude financial profit motive above all others and it certainly does not require you to share the same values as other people. 

In essence, all charitable giving is fundamentally selfish, it&#039;s just people are unwilling to accept this. 

Of course in the case of Superman, being an alien might mean he does obtain meaningful rewards from being selfless - you assume that aside from superpowers he otherwise functions in the same way as human beings, which seems improbable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually a libertarian superman might choose to do things due to obtaining a warm and fuzzy feeling from so doing. He is then behaving rationally &#8211; he obtains what he desires, and other people get what they want. It&#8217;s just that the starting point for his reasoning is an incalculable and atypical desire to help other people without reward. Being a libertarian does not mean you elevate a crude financial profit motive above all others and it certainly does not require you to share the same values as other people. </p>
<p>In essence, all charitable giving is fundamentally selfish, it&#8217;s just people are unwilling to accept this. </p>
<p>Of course in the case of Superman, being an alien might mean he does obtain meaningful rewards from being selfless &#8211; you assume that aside from superpowers he otherwise functions in the same way as human beings, which seems improbable.</p>
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		<title>By: The Nameless Libertarian</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/07/18/whos-want-to-be-superman.html/comment-page-1#comment-5690</link>
		<dc:creator>The Nameless Libertarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 14:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1254#comment-5690</guid>
		<description>Superman will always be the blandest of superheroes. He lacks a real character, any real motivation and a decent backstory. Even the villains are rubbish, in both the comics and the films. Superman II is probably the best Superman film, although that isn&#039;t a massive compliment. But if you don&#039;t like Superman II then don&#039;t ever watch Superman Returns. It is like Superman II but about 25 times more boring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Superman will always be the blandest of superheroes. He lacks a real character, any real motivation and a decent backstory. Even the villains are rubbish, in both the comics and the films. Superman II is probably the best Superman film, although that isn&#8217;t a massive compliment. But if you don&#8217;t like Superman II then don&#8217;t ever watch Superman Returns. It is like Superman II but about 25 times more boring.</p>
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		<title>By: burkesworks</title>
		<link>http://charlottegore.com/2009/07/18/whos-want-to-be-superman.html/comment-page-1#comment-5668</link>
		<dc:creator>burkesworks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charlottegore.com/?p=1254#comment-5668</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Of course, Libertarian Superman wouldn’t really be as exciting for the young nippers watching the film&lt;/i&gt;

It won&#039;t be. 
Not only is &lt;i&gt;Atlas Shrugged&lt;/i&gt; 1100+ pages of badly edited self-indulgence and leaden dialogue, but John Galt has no known superpowers either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Of course, Libertarian Superman wouldn’t really be as exciting for the young nippers watching the film</i></p>
<p>It won&#8217;t be.<br />
Not only is <i>Atlas Shrugged</i> 1100+ pages of badly edited self-indulgence and leaden dialogue, but John Galt has no known superpowers either.</p>
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