Right, being the one-man think tank that he is, Rod Liddle has decided to troll the internet with a nasty piece of insinuation about the ‘human filth’ that is young afro-Caribbean men living in London.
Behold and tremble as Brain-trust speaks:
The overwhelming majority of street crime, knife crime, gun crime, robbery and crimes of sexual violence in London is carried out by young men from the African-Caribbean community. Of course, in return, we have rap music, goat curry and a far more vibrant and diverse understanding of cultures which were once alien to us. For which, many thanks.
Let me count the ways.
First Rod, okay, crime is not a ‘white’ issue, it’s a ‘human’ issue, okay? Inner City slums are always crime hotspots whoever happens to be living in them at the time, which means that people who live there are also most likely to be victims of crime. It’s a ‘living in a shit hole dominated by unemployment, under-education and deprivation’ issue, not a race issue.
Second, your main assertion about the crime rates – that the ‘overwhelming majority’ of certain types of crime are committed by young Afro-Caribbean males is, basically, wrong. Even if you cheat and just focus on London, the overall number of crimes committed by whites is 53.1%. In fact, the only category of crime in which black people commit the most crimes is in robbery, for which they account for 58% in London. This, Rod, is not an overwhelming majority by any stretch of the imagination. Are you now going to qualify your claim further by limiting yourself to specific districts of London? By the way, as a curious aside, whites commit 63% of the burglaries.. Did you know that, Rod?
In order to support your implication that there’s something inherently criminal about black people and that this proves Multi-culturalism is a terrible idea, you picked London and you picked specific categories of crimes to support your ‘overwhelming majority’ claim. You gave yourself every chance.. and yet you’re still wrong. Read it and weep.
What makes the mind boggle though is that you might actually believe that this counts as a valid argument against multi-culturalism. Surely not… surely? You’re not that stupid are you?
Yes. Yes, I think you are.
Major H/T to Alex Massie of the Speccie.
JuliaM said...
5 Dec 09 at 8:08 am
“In order to support your implication that there’s something inherently criminal about black people..”
Except that’s not what he’s saying, is it? Or that sentence would read: “The overwhelming majority of street crime, knife crime, gun crime, robbery and crimes of sexual violence in London is carried out by the African-Caribbean community.”
It doesn’t.
Laurence said...
5 Dec 09 at 11:13 am
Go easy with the stats. Unless you’re talking about roughly equal populations and a given number of events, the numbers are meaningless and particularly dodgy when used to argue the case for the smaller group.
For instance, you can say 65% of greetings cards are bought by women and conclude that women buy more cards than men. You can’t legitinately say that 45% of toffees are eaten by under-eighteens and therefore that adults eat more toffees than children.
As for the rest, it’s a bit hard on the honest people who live in deprived areas, wouldn’t you say?
Von Spreuth said...
5 Dec 09 at 11:37 am
XX Second, your main assertion about the crime rates – that the ‘overwhelming majority’ of certain types of crime are committed by young Afro-Caribbean males is, basically, wrong. Even if you cheat and just focus on London, the overall number of crimes committed by whites is 53.1%. In fact, the only category of crime in which black people commit the most crimes is in robbery, for which they account for 58% in London. XX
And what, as a percentage of the general population, are black?
Then why are these crime figures paralleled by using Turks and Middle Easteners here in Germany? ALL Germany? (2007 crime reports and the trend was UPWARDS!!)
Example 80% of ALL “street crime” ie robbery, assault, criminal damage, etc is comitted by the Turk/M.E group.*
Now listen VERY carefully… THEY ARE ONLY 10% OF THE POPULATION!!
If 80% of crime, a crime that can and does effect EVERY one in the community, is comitted by only 10% of the population, and a DESTINCT part of that population, then there is a damn good REASON to be predjudiced against that portion of that particular group.
* “Polizeiliche Kriminalstatistik 2007″
Bundesministerium des Innern (Equiv in G.B is “Home Office) Referat Öffentlichkeitsarbeit
Alt Moabit 101D
10559 Berlin.
Jon Gregory said...
5 Dec 09 at 12:07 pm
Who voted for ‘multiculturism’ I don’t remember being asked. Remarkable that Japan & China remain stoically monocultural as does most of Africa & the Indian sub continent. It appears to be a one way highway.
Von Spreuth said...
5 Dec 09 at 1:24 pm
XX Jon Gregory said…
5 Dec 09 at 12:07 pm
Remarkable that Japan & China remain stoically monocultural as does most of Africa & the Indian sub continent. XX
And do not forget the Middle East, where MOST of the problem cases in EUROPE come from.
Britain is strange in that it is the only country that seems to have problems with black “Non muslim ones any way), Germany, France, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, hardly a single backward baseball cap wearing monkey on a bike carrying a knife and/or gun, to be seen.
It CAN be that most of ours are actual AFRICANS, and not “West Indians”.
Southie said...
5 Dec 09 at 1:58 pm
“In fact, the only category of crime in which black people commit the most crimes is in robbery, for which they account for 58% in London.”
One has to be careful, it is not unusual for a population segment ( any demographic) to take over a genre of crime, as a possession.
I know Cook County, Englewood, South Bronx, Roxbury, and I know a little about London, I am an voyeur of bullet splatter and chipped brick.
In Roxbury, they shoot at you because you are white, they shoot at each other because they have guns and because they shoot at white people. If you can shoot at white people you can shoot at anybody.
You probably won’t read that in the Boston Globe.
So, well, robbery is a big issue, tax evasion, jay-walking doesn’t have old people bottled up in their houses frightened to go out.
Britain’s black community is 2 per cent of the total population and they are a third of the shooting victims, with other blacks pecking the primer.
Anybody meet an Anglo-Saxon Triad leader recently?
So get over it.
Southie
Charlotte Gore said...
5 Dec 09 at 3:04 pm
The point of this post was always this:
Racially profiling crimes is not an argument against multiculturalism.
For example, segregating people into separate and distinct communities with separate schools, churches and shops strikes me as a really bad idea in the long run. I might argue against multiculturalism on those grounds, although I’d rather things were mixed up rather than having those ‘other’ cultures removed.
Attilla The Hen said...
5 Dec 09 at 3:13 pm
Get the hell away from me with that kind of noise, you hand-wringing limp-wristed liberal idiot. Rod Liddle is spot on the money about blacks being responsible for most of the crime in our cities. I’ve never met a black yet who wasn’t a thief or a drug addict, and usually both.
Multiculturism, my arse. You can shove it.
Laurence said...
5 Dec 09 at 3:32 pm
Sorry, Charlotte:
“Rod Liddle has shit for brains” is not synonymous with “Racially profiling crimes is not an argument against multiculturalism”.
Attilla:
“I’ve never met a black yet who wasn’t a thief or a drug addict, and usually both.”
I think you ought to get out less!
Charlotte Gore said...
5 Dec 09 at 3:51 pm
Racism isn’t ‘saying bad things about black people’, it’s about believing that someone’s race dictates their personality, their behaviour, their intelligence and so on.
Rod Liddle is not ‘spot on’. He’s wrong.
Peter said...
5 Dec 09 at 4:06 pm
“Who voted for ‘multiculturism’ I don’t remember being asked. Remarkable that Japan & China remain stoically monocultural as does most of Africa & the Indian sub continent. It appears to be a one way highway.”
R-i-i-ght, India, Africa, “monocultural”, sure… because we all know that the population and culture(s) of say Nigeria and Kenya are completely indistinguishable and interchangeable in every particular. Which is of course utter rubbish. The only common denominator between the two countries and Sub-Saharan Africa in general is that the population is predominantly poor and predominantly black, which is enough for Jon Gregory.
Still, it is all academic since, as we know, the wogs begin at Calais, eh?
News from Somewhere said...
5 Dec 09 at 4:52 pm
Charlotte Gore said:
“it’s about believing that someone’s race dictates their personality, their behaviour, their intelligence and so on.”
And you think there’s no correlation at all? You’ll be joining the University of East Anglia next as a data fiddler.
Charlotte Gore said...
5 Dec 09 at 5:13 pm
I’m an individualist, I take other people as individuals. I don’t believe there’s anything useful, worthwhile or relevant information to be drawn from looking at someone’s race, sex, sexuality or whatever.
An individuals personal track record through their life? That’s relevant or useful. Judging someone based on what other people with the same skin colour have done? That’s retarded.
Psi said...
5 Dec 09 at 5:25 pm
XXSouthie said…
5 Dec 09 at 1:58 pm
Anybody meet an Anglo-Saxon Triad leader recently?XX
Wow, Southie have you met a non-Anglo-Saxon Triad leader?!?!? I’m impressed, how did you know? Normally they don’t go around introducing themselves as that.
Also, you seem to be trying to attack Charlotte on the basis of not considering the population but the you ignore the population issue. Charlotte’s figure of 58% is robbery in London, you figure of 2% for the UK population is irrelevant, I don’t know the figures for the area but if someone were to say that the Black population were 58% of the total I would not be surprised.
Also as you do bring up old people being frightened to go out. The only people I am aware of being concerned to go out around where I live have been young black people. As they are much more likely to be a victim of a crime than I am, as I am not in the high risk age group (12-18ish).
Southie said...
5 Dec 09 at 6:21 pm
“Normally they don’t go around introducing themselves as that.”
Triad leaders can decide what computer stuff we use, they own computer corporations & associated manufacturing.
‘In the 2001 UK Census, 565,876 people stated their ethnicity as Black Caribbean, 485,277 as Black African and 97,585 as Black Other, making a total of 1,148,738 in the census’s Black or Black British category. This was equivalent to 2 per cent of the UK population at the time.’
Do they make computers in Jamaica or Africa? Crime, it is just another form of politics, like war.
Southie
44 Sun Yee On ‘Dragon Head’
LEADER, TRIAD SOCIETY (No. 34 in 1996)
ADDRESS Tsimshatsui, Kowloon, Hong Kong
POWER SHIFT Hong Kong’s most powerful triad group (and possibly the world’s) was relatively quiet this year — perhaps because the gang did not want to spoil the Hong Kong handover. The Sun Yee On brothers have close ties with public security officials in Beijing — who in the past have dubbed them “patriots” — and called on gang members to behave. Much of the gang activity has shifted to the gambling enclave of Macau; Sun Yee On members have not been involved in the recent rash of shootings and arson. (The dragon head of Sun Yee On cannot be named for legal reasons.)
45 Maung Aye
ARMY CHIEF, SLORC DEPUTY CHAIRMAN, MYANMAR
BORN Dec. 25, 1937, in Sagaing Division, Burma
EDUCATION Defense Services Academy,
Maymyo
FAMILY Married, one daughter
ADDRESS Defense Ministry, Yangon
POWER SHIFT A hardliner with little time for political niceties, he is the man behind the near-rout of the long-running ethnic Karen resistance. Next in line to take over the State Law & Order Restoration Council and a major force behind the military junta’s tougher line on dissidents and rebels. He is suspicious of too much economic liberalization. This man will keep a lid on political freedom.
Southie said...
5 Dec 09 at 6:46 pm
“Also as you do bring up old people being frightened to go out.”
My hood? Average UK property prices, last night was quiet, gangs running wild, police everywhere, residents terrified.
So, you live in Aspen?
Southie
JuliaM said...
5 Dec 09 at 6:50 pm
Triad leader: “i’m in ur PC, controllin ur software…”
leon said...
5 Dec 09 at 8:13 pm
From the Afro Caribbean community? Eh? We had a Windrush 2 or something? Last I heard myself, and my fellow descendents of the Caribbean are British in that we were born here.
Constantly Furious said...
5 Dec 09 at 8:17 pm
There are two arguments going on here.
1. Is Liddle a provocative, contrarian arse? Yes
2. Do young black men commit way above the expected statistical level of serious crime? Also, yes.
By tangling them up, we risk missing the point…
Pam Nash said...
5 Dec 09 at 8:18 pm
Southie
You don’t happen to be Whitey Bulger in real life, do you? Your aggression and intimate knowledge of Boston, and NY, crime areas somehow suggests that you might be; add to that the fact that you ‘know a little about London’ and your posting name of Southie, and all becomes clear. You ARE Whitey, aren’t you? John Connolly’s old co-conspirator.
I’m jumping to conclusions? No more than you, my friend, no more than you.
leon said...
5 Dec 09 at 8:19 pm
“Racism isn’t ’saying bad things about black people’”
Erm yes it is, if you say something bad about black people in general that’s racism, if you say something bad about a person and highlight their race at all while saying it you’re being racist.
pagar said...
5 Dec 09 at 8:47 pm
That’s retarded
OMG I’ve been on Liberal Conspiracy too long.
If you said that there you’d be drummed out of the Brownies sharpish.
Jakemottas said...
5 Dec 09 at 8:51 pm
He does have shit for brains, there is much more compelling evidence to link crime to low levels of education and poverty in general, so one can assume he is stretching essentially anecdotal evidence to “prove” something he believes i.e. Multicultralism is a failure.
An assumption one could make from his statement is places without a large multicultural population suffer significantly lower levels of crime or in essence the level of crime is proportional to the multicultural population (what ever that actually may mean… totally nebulous term) …. I don’t know for sure but suspect that this is entirely untrue
asquith said...
5 Dec 09 at 9:11 pm
Rod Liddle thinks it’s clever/funny to call himself “Seacole”, which pretty much says it all about him in my view.
What a total cunt indeed.
BG said...
5 Dec 09 at 10:31 pm
Oh for fuck’s sake.
Rod Liddle is an ex-Guardian columnist and ex-Today producer. He is hardly likely to be a hardcore fucking racist, you stupid ignorant bitch.
He is just a bit of a grumpy old man having an extended mid-life crisis and whingeing a bit. Or does that count as having ‘shitferbrains’ in your politically correct universe ? For fuck’s sake, give the guy a break and live him alone.
BG said...
5 Dec 09 at 10:37 pm
Anyway, what the fuck is the difference between the ‘afro-caribbean community’ and the african community ?
How would we in any case know the difference if we were mugged by one ? The coppers would ask “Can you give a description ?” Er, yes. “He was 6 foot tall and black”.
Ah, sir. “Yes, but was he african or afro-caribbean – it may be crucial for our racial profiling surveys that you know the difference”
How on earth should I know, and what difference does it make anyway ?
Charlotte Gore said...
5 Dec 09 at 10:44 pm
Good question. The official Home Office figures show that the majority of crimes are committed by whites, except for Robbery, where blacks commit a slight majority – but it’ll all balanced out in the end.
The home office figures don’t specify which particular community they come from, but Rod Liddle does. He claims explicitly that the ‘overwhelming majority’ of certain types of crime are committed by Afro-Caribbean males, which is factually untrue.
I’m calling Rod a shit for brains because he thinks that his “what I reckon based on my gut feeling from reading my own columns” figures actually count as an argument against multiculturalism, which it doesn’t.
He’s perfectly entitled to say whatever stupid shit he wants and I’m entitled to the freedom to call him a retard, just as you’ve got the freedom to call me a bitch, if you so desire.
Laurence said...
5 Dec 09 at 11:26 pm
The original post is probably not Charlotte’s finest bit of writing or her best ever argument but this is her space and I think that good manners dictate that one shouldn’t write stuff here that one wouldn’t say to her face.
I believe that all crime statistics should be treated with caution and this particularly holds in terms of the racial breakdown of perpetrators.
I also think that Rod Liddle is witty and makes good, even telling, points. I would enjoy having dinner with him but I wouldn’t want to see him in a position of greater influence than that which he has as a journalist. I suspect that he doesn’t aspire to power.
Charlotte Gore said...
5 Dec 09 at 11:28 pm
I’ll concede that
Steve G said...
5 Dec 09 at 11:30 pm
Rod Liddle is wrong, it’s as simple as that, the overwhelming majority of these crimes is not committed by black men.
“Do young black men commit way above the expected statistical level of serious crime?”
Yes, they do. But that’s not what Rod Liddle has claimed is it? Unless I’m missing something…
Charlotte Gore said...
5 Dec 09 at 11:34 pm
Steve,
You’re exactly right. People are giving Rod a greater benefit of the doubt than he deserves because they’re presuming that’s what he’s saying – but he’s not. He’s making a very specific and very wrong claim that isn’t true.
Ethel said...
6 Dec 09 at 12:27 am
“An assumption one could make from his statement is places without a large multicultural population suffer significantly lower levels of crime or in essence the level of crime is proportional to the multicultural population (what ever that actually may mean… totally nebulous term) …. I don’t know for sure but suspect that this is entirely untrue”
Actually, it is true. And when you look at the figures it also blows the ‘poverty causes crime’ argument out of the water.
Take a look at Cornwall. It’s 99% white, the poorest region in the UK with an average income of £15,500, and has an incredibly low crime rate. Homogeneity and a sense of belonging have been shown time and again to correlate with low crime rates. Whether there’s any causality is another matter but the research certainly points that way.
Paolo said...
6 Dec 09 at 2:17 am
Mr. Liddle is simply attempting, through his article, to incite racial hatred against Black people. Isn’t that illegal in Britain?
JuliaM said...
6 Dec 09 at 8:47 am
“Mr. Liddle is simply attempting, through his article, to incite racial hatred against Black people. Isn’t that illegal in Britain?”
No, he’s not. And yes, it is.
But the legal test for ‘inciting racial hatred’ is not ‘saying something that makes people uncomfortable and that we’d rather not hear’.
Well, yet, anyway…
Rich said...
6 Dec 09 at 11:17 am
Goodness, who’d have thought this post would have brought so many angry, ill-informed bigots out of the woodwork?
I think some good points have been made above, but they’re lost in the sludge, so let me see if I can help. The key to this is the old rule one of your teachers may have introduced you to: correlation doesn’t imply causation.
Yes, there is a correlation between race and certain kinds of crime.
No, nobody believes race causes crime. What possible mechanism could there be for that?
Yes, there is a correlation between poverty, low levels of education and crime.
Yes, many people believe that poverty and low levels of education do have a causal effect on property crime.
Yes, black people are overwhelmingly more likely to be poor and ill-educated in the UK than white people are.
No, being black in itself doesn’t cause poverty or lack of education. Again, why would it?
These points are not, I think, controversial. If you can’t understand them then you’re not tall enough to ride the calling-people-a-bitch-on-the-internet rollercoaster.
Now for some things reasonable people could disagree with.
Here and elsewhere, Liddle has been calling for an end to multiculturalism in Britain. I can’t find an interpretation this that doesn’t suggest that he wants mass deportation of all dark-skinned people in order to protect The Whites.
We live in a media environment in which more and more pundits are calling for this kind of thing. Will we one day actually start building the boats? And if we do, will people like us be out on the streets chucking paving stones at policemen? Or will we just let it happen, because Liddle and Littlejohn and Philips and Moir made us feel good about it?
Anyway the correlation/causation distinction suggests that even this measure wouldn’t cause crime levels to go down. It would most likely just lead to greater levels of poverty in the white community and hence more young white men being locked up instead.
Or do you think that a coutry can become rich and peaceful simply by deporting all the poor people? And where did you get your economics PhD again? University of Kampala, class of ’72?
Von Spreuth said...
6 Dec 09 at 11:42 am
XX BG said…
5 Dec 09 at 10:37 pm
Anyway, what the fuck is the difference between the ‘afro-caribbean community’ and the african community ?XX
As I said above. MOST of Germanys blacks are AFRICAN, and those that are not muslim are NO problem whatsoever. In fact probably better behaved than the British scum we get here.
Whereas Britains black population is greatly West Indian. Again, as I said. WE in Germany, don’t get subintelligent idiots that do not know which way around a baseball cap goes,wearing trousers with the waist band around the ankles, and looking like a shower of monkeys on BMX bikes shooting and stabbing each other and innocent passers by.
THAT is the difference.
Von Spreuth said...
6 Dec 09 at 11:47 am
XX leon said…
5 Dec 09 at 8:13 pm
From the Afro Caribbean community? Eh? We had a Windrush 2 or something? Last I heard myself, and my fellow descendents of the Caribbean are British in that we were born here.XX
So long as you go around wearing your rasta coulours and dread locks, smoking your funny ciggarettes, you will NEVER be “BRITISH”. Exactly the same as I say about any foriegner in any country.
You want to live there, you want to BE of that people, that nation, you will ASSIMILATE. FUCK “integretion”. ASSIMILATION is the ONLY way you should be accepted.
If you do NOT, do NOT be surprised when you are constantly treated as a foriegner.
Laurence said...
6 Dec 09 at 11:48 am
Rich: “Liddle has been calling for an end to multiculturalism in Britain. I can’t find an interpretation this that doesn’t suggest that he wants mass deportation of all dark-skinned people in order to protect The Whites”
There’s a typo here so it’s not entirely clear what you’re saying. Could it be that you’re claiming that calling for a end to multiculturalism means wanting to deport all non-whites?
Surely not.
Please confirm that you’re not moving this already acrimonious thread up a gear.
Rich said...
6 Dec 09 at 11:59 am
Laurence — yeah, that’s what I meant, but thanks for checking before beating me up
Without being sarcastic, it’s possible I’m being obtuse about this.
If we accept — which I absolutely don’t — that “multiculturalism has failed” and that this is as serious a matter as Liddle suggests, what are our options for fixing the problem?
Sine the claim is that the status quo is already badly broken, the standard line about “stopping immigration” is surely necessary but not sufficient?
Rich said...
6 Dec 09 at 12:10 pm
BTW, admittedly I was being a bit polemical when I said “all non-whites”. Obviously the preferred term might be “all immigrants”.
But Liddle is explicitly talking about black people. And next week he’ll be saying much the same about “muslims” (he has before). Some of the commenters above are, weirdly, talking about “triads”. None of these categories has anything to do with immigration status or nationality.
I don’t think it’s going out on a limb to assume we’re talking about race.
Laurence said...
6 Dec 09 at 12:20 pm
Rich:
thanks for clarifying. I think you’re mistaken rather than obtuse and I’m not sure that I’m the right person to say how to “fix the problem” but I think that multiculturalism has not done anybody any favours.
For the people already here, the perception has too often been that special allowances are being made for new arrivals. Trivial things like councils translating leaflets into a variety of languages, pernicious rumours (ill-founded or not) about immigrants jumping housing queues, the endless calls to celebrate cultures other than their own have made a lot of longtime residents resentful.
For the immigrants it has promoted a sense that they are more than justified in remaining aloof from the society into which they should blend. Notice how I cunningly avoid ‘integrate’ or ‘assimilate’ here.
I look to the US and France as countries that have had no truck with multiculturalism and while not being without racial tensions of course, have managed to avoid some of our problems.
It’s multiculturalism that leads to the madness that Divali should be trumpeted but Christmas is a dirty word and my belief is that Rod Liddle is taking the rip out of those who pander to as well as those who seek to profit by multicultural theocracy and the race relations industry.
JuliaM said...
6 Dec 09 at 12:39 pm
“…will people like us be out on the streets chucking paving stones at policemen?”
I certainly won’t. Have you ever tried to lift one of those things? They’re bloody heavy…
Rich said...
6 Dec 09 at 12:43 pm
Laurence,
I think your analysis is probably spot on. I disagree with the “multiculturalism has failed” claim, but that’s really a different topic.
The reason I think it’s worth engaging with these debates is that they seem to be moving quietly into the political mainstream.
A big part of that process has been those “pernicious rumours” circulated by the likes of Liddle, not just once but day in, day out for years in our mainstream press.
That means they may not be limited to internet messageboards and BNP meetings in scout huts for much longer. People who make laws might start making laws that aim to fix this problem. That’s what I’m afraid of, because I think it could mean curtailments of important liberties for all of us.
It’s interesting to think about which of “our problems” the US has “avoided”. High levels of crime and poverty in its black communities? Or having leaflets in Hindi in the library? Liddle is talking about the former but the US is a disastrous example for him if we take it that the US has had “no truck with multiculturalism”.
chris g said...
6 Dec 09 at 1:41 pm
Has met Rod Liddle at the Spectator editors’ dinner. He’s very pompous and condescending……
Leon Greenwell said...
6 Dec 09 at 2:06 pm
There is a problem with multi-culturalism – it is perpetually wearing two hats (false dichotomies), lumpen-proletariat and lumpen-petit-bourgois
British? Well,there was once a Welshman, a Scotsman and an Irishman – but it is all too often an excuse for degenerating into anti-Irish-ism. I personally am somewhat indifferent about being addressed as ‘Paddy’ by old sweats; but I’m a bit thick-skinned. We are, by the way, not of the ‘British’ Commonwealth, but the ‘New’ Commonwealth; apparently for precisely this reason
To the Satano-Monetarism of the Lord Charlotte with both their houses!
Laurence said...
6 Dec 09 at 2:08 pm
Rich,
can I take your last point first and clear that out of the way because it’s a bit of a red herring. It’s a red herring because we’re talking about immigration, aren’t we, rather than an issues which has its root in an earlier time.
By way of contrast, consider the recent case of the American moslem military psychiatrist who went beserk on a military base in the US and killed a number of soldiers. Look at the angry reaction of his co-religionists and compare this to the situation in the UK where we seem to nurture a virulent stream of islamic extremism among second and third generation immigrants who grew up in multicultural Britain and where the voice of moderate Isalm is less unequivocal.
Like you (and like Charlotte, which is why I come here) I’m wedded to our liberties including the stack we have already lost. Calling for more laws will serve to curtail some liberties and will introduce further distortions into the way we all rub along together.
More laws create precisely the social distortions and ill-feeling that we have today and when these laws are interpreted by unimaginative and -I’ll say it- thick public officials throwing their weight around, grumpiness among an indigenous population that feels itself increasingly disposessed can grow into something ugly.
This may not be the solution but my instinct woould be to sweep away the bulk of the race legislation and the uncounted throng who benefit either in financial terms or through the righteous sense of victimhood in which they cocoon themselves. I’m still optimistic enough to think that folk can find their own level better without the help of the state.
Rich said...
6 Dec 09 at 2:59 pm
“I’m still optimistic enough to think that folk can find their own level better without the help of the state.”
Yep, I’m with you there.
IANAL but I doubt there are many laws whose repeal would make much difference to this. Most of the things people don’t seem to like — bilingual street signs, lights for Diwali and so on — aren’t set down in statute, they’re things that organisations choose to do because they think it’s the right thing for their customers or, in the case of public services, for the people they serve. You’d have to enact laws to ban them from doing these things. If we think we can fix race relations in this country by repealing some laws then wonderful, but I’m skeptical.
The “jumping the housing queue” thing, like the banning Christmas thing, was a deliberate fabrication that’s been systematically debunked elsewhere. Of course if there are practices like this they should be looked at. But almost always when someone looks they turn out to have been made up by a journalist or pressure group.
On the Islamic extremism thing, I think that’s a matter of what the press focuses on and who has the loudest voice. Because of where I’ve lived and worked I’ve known loads of British muslims who all have the same disgust for terrorism that you and I have, and whose way of life is pretty much the same as ours. But that doesn’t make a headline in the Mail, whereas I suspect certain reporters have the MCGB on speed-dial because they get people’s juices going. In the US I imagine that moderate muslims have more cause to be organised because, in the wake of 9/11, things got very nasty for them for a while.
And yes, slavery is a part of why the US has race relations issues. But then it’s also why there are black people in the Carribbean, and our involvement in that trade is exactly why West Indians have historically been allowed to settle in the UK; they were citizens of the British Empire. Anyway, none of that changes the fact that the supposedly non-multicultural US has a high level of crime in black communities, which suggests in turn that, contra Liddle, multiculturalism isn’t the problem.
Southie said...
6 Dec 09 at 3:17 pm
“You don’t happen to be Whitey Bulger in real life, do you? Your aggression and intimate knowledge of Boston, and NY, crime areas somehow suggests that you might be; add to that the fact that you ‘know a little about London’ and your posting name of Southie, and all becomes clear. You ARE Whitey, aren’t you?”
I’m not an equal opportunity employer.
A black tryin to wave down a rig – is a flat person, they spit when other folks are waitin for a lawyer, and they never throw a piece away – Is it any wonder they are chained to a seat?
You don’t need CSI with the blacks, they’ll do a slant on each other.
If I ever voted, it was against the commie, English bastards at the Globe.
I just boost trucks, I don’t have a social message, I just fuckin steal things, and I can say nothin in one language.
If my rental was ever down at the back, it was because of off-pitch Italians, how do make money? Guido spends all of his time spittin about third earing his friends.
The only thing in my bath is a rubber duck, I don’t use it for draining the blood out of pals I went to school with.
It is also because of people like me, that selling insurance isn’t the uphill sweat it could be,
Southie
News from Somewhere said...
6 Dec 09 at 3:55 pm
Rich said:
“Here and elsewhere, Liddle has been calling for an end to multiculturalism in Britain. I can’t find an interpretation this that doesn’t suggest that he wants mass deportation of all dark-skinned people in order to protect The Whites.”
Eh what? Surely you are confusing a multi-cultural country with a multi-racial one. For most of the last 2000 years, Britain has been multi-racial, but all of the immigrant influx has gradually become absorbed into the mainstream British culture, albeit having altered the culture slightly in the process. The outcome so far has been that we were multi-racial, but having an evolving mono-culture.
The post WW2 immigrant influx does not seem to be going down this path. Instead of being absorbed by the indigenous population and modifying their ways in conformance with mainsream British culture, the recent arrivals have created ghetto areas (often with the tacit consent of the state) so that we now have the ludicrous spectacle of parts of British cities, where (as a policeman once said to me) “They keep their own (sharia) law in there, we daren’t try to change things”. This state of affairs must not be allowed to go on.
Rich said...
6 Dec 09 at 4:28 pm
News From Somewhere –
It’s quite possible that there’s something different about post-war (post-imperial) immigration. I don’t know. You need to give me real evidence, not an opinion from an anonymous copper who may not know his arse from his elbow.
For example, sharia law in Britain is used alongside mainstream law in a tiny number of civil cases and has nothing whatsoever to do with the police.
Geographic concentration is a long-standing feature of immigration and, yes, it can lead to ghettos. In the middle ages Whitechapel was an area where the Jewish community observed their own laws and customs; in the Renaissance they were largely displaced by an influx of asylum-seeking Huguenots, and now it’s Bangladeshis and Bengalis trying to better themselves through commerce.
So what? We’ve never had a mono-culture, but what’s so great about one of those anyway?
I honestly don’t know what it means to “integrate” into “mainstream British culture”. Is there a definition of “mainstream British culture” that we can all agree on? Has it got to do with haircuts and hats as some posters here seem to think? Or religious and political beliefs maybe? What degree of force is reasonable for the state to exert if I resist?
I genuinely want to know exactly what kind of solution you’re proposing. Otherwise this is all just impotent whinging.
News from Somewhere said...
6 Dec 09 at 4:47 pm
Yes Rich, I’m afraid all of this is just impotent whingeing, and it will be until we get a government that actually puts policies in place that are for the benefit of all of us in this country, not just those people with a politically-correct axe to grind.
asquith said...
6 Dec 09 at 5:49 pm
Fuck me, what’s all this? I think you should carefully go over just who’s been linking to this post to get all these new pals of yours.
There IS a link between crime & low innate intelligence, disadvantaged background (single parent, unloved, poorly educated, often illiterate). Of course, usual caveats that not every poor person is a criminal etc. etc. but the links are statistical & exist undoubtedly.
It could, perhaps, be said that if certain ethnic groups are more likely to commit crime it’s because of those factors. That’s why being black doesn’t make someone inevitably a criminal, but being from certain backgrounds makes it more likely.
Some cultures are, in fairness, not ideal. One thinks of the culture amongst some black youth, or white underclass culture such as that which prevailed on the estate you used to live on, or Somalian culture. You presumably don’t get an abundance of libertarian bloggers where Arab culture prevails.
So this is an argument against the state sponsoring multiculturalism, & I’d argue for more heavy use of ESOL, less official translation, removal of the restrictions on asylum seekers’ work, support for women’s refuges etc, removal of state subsidies to “faith” schools, & so on.
I do indeed prefer the culture I live in, western culture, over any other on offer. But I am not in any sense a racist because I think cultures can & do change- look at the wholly unrecognisable Britain of 100 years ago, or what Ireland was like within living memory. So there’s no reason to suppose that simply by belonging to whatever race, or a Muslim, someone must be my implacable enemy for all time.
I have become aware that we Britons have only sustained a high level of freedom because we have the civic society & so on for there not to be anarchy in the absence of an all-pervading state. So I am not an ideological libertarian, as firstly I see the logic of immigration controls, secondly I appreciate how fragile a think freedom actually is & how rare a flourishing of liberal culture is (You also need, in my view, a very high level of material prosperity, which is a reason for hope in cases such as Iran, China, India etc, all of whom are illiberal but will perhaps become less so by force of “nature”). (This is why I am in favour of a market economy, of course, as for all the glitches & what have you it delivers).
Let it not be inferred from the above that my view of Liddle is anything other than contempt. He is a pointless oaf who could best enrich western culture by never saying anything or breathing again.
Rich said...
6 Dec 09 at 5:50 pm
News from Somewhere –
Policies such as…?
This is getting like the old debate about democracy. Sure, we can all poke holes in it and complain that it’s not perfect, but nobody ever comes up with a positive suggestion to replace it.
The difference here is that Rod Liddle is loudly proclaiming that black people commit most of the violent crime in London and quite a mob cheering him on. That could well have serious effects if some idiot takes matters into his own hands, as has happened plenty of times before. This is not a schoolboy debating topic but a real issue that can have consequences for real people.
So: what policies are you talking about that will benefit “all of us in this country”?
asquith said...
6 Dec 09 at 5:52 pm
What I mean at the beginning sort of area is that black children are more likely to be raised in deprived homes, go to the worst schools, etc. It would be interesting to see how they compare with whites who face a similar level of hardship, which most don’t.
I grew up in a wholly white working- & underclass environment that was fairly shite. A lot of the people I knew as a child have in fact become criminals. I suppose environments like that are going to fuck you over regardless of race.
IvanS said...
6 Dec 09 at 5:59 pm
Well you seem to have brought a fair bit of pond life out of the woodwork ( mixed metaphor, sorry ) with this post, I know bugger all about London but I do know that in this area with few black faces the threats to life and limb all have white faces, they also live in certain areas which everyone else avoids if they can. As far as I’m aware they don’t belong to a different ‘culture’ from me so I just put it down to their being nasty little scrotes who have been encouraged in their nastines by lousy parents, hopeless education and a culture of stupidity, the latter includes the likes of Rod Liddle.
IvanS said...
6 Dec 09 at 6:04 pm
One other thing I’ve noticed around here where there are a fair number of Asians is how different the youth of that group are. If you meet one in a hoodie down a narrow alley and wisely stand aside to let him pass he will actually say thank you, no doubt Mr. Liddle will have some complicated piece of racial profiling to explain that, I’d just put it down to having decent parents.
asquith said...
6 Dec 09 at 5:51 pm
I have become aware that a link to this post was made by Alex Massie. Being as the Spectator attracts the dregs of humanity, presumably thgis explains the above series of comments. I think I’ve done fairly well though
Rod Liddle has Shit-for-Brains « Liverpool Antifascists said...
6 Dec 09 at 6:53 pm
[...] political correctness, race and crime statistics, Rod Liddle, shit for brains by AKblack&red Charlotte Gore explains the difference between “political incorrectness” and [...]
Leon Greenwell said...
6 Dec 09 at 7:09 pm
Get some of dis….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O-Aej5ahhU
Leon Greenwell said...
6 Dec 09 at 7:13 pm
5LI
Laban said...
6 Dec 09 at 7:20 pm
Even if you cheat and just focus on London, the overall number of crimes committed by whites is 53.1%. In fact, the only category of crime in which black people commit the most crimes is in robbery, for which they account for 58% in London.
Admittedly I raced through the pdf that Charlotte linked to, but which table are those figures from ? Can’t find them meself but it may be poor reading.
Charlotte ? Anyone ?
Technomist said...
6 Dec 09 at 10:02 pm
I have enjoyed reading your post and the discussion which followed. I think you and Liddle are both wrong. A disproportionate amount of crime takes place in what policy wonks call the Afro-Caribbean community, and a disproportionate part of people who are described as being in that community are victims of crime. The extent and nature of the crime spreads an altogether pernicous fear and distrust far beyond the group of people who would describe themselves as belonging to that group, but the effects are most community within whatever ‘it’ is.
I am fairly sure that the levels of distrust crime creates actually mean that to speak meaningfully of a ‘community’ in high crime areas is disingenuous. In any event, the whole racial aspect of this is bunkum. Whether you talk about a group of people who are white, black, asian, Afro-Caribbean, (There are plenty of people from the caribbean who are of “asian” descent), have particiular passports such as Dominican, Jamaican, Trinidadian, British or whatever, significant numbers of young men who are described as “Afro-Caribbean” by people trying to be PC about so labelling them (and encouragihg them to so label themselves) actually have a white parent.
My advice for survival in my part of London is to treat all with respect, regardless of skin colour, accent or religion but never to under-estimate the capacity of any of them or their friends and relations to really mess up your day.
Southie said...
6 Dec 09 at 10:48 pm
Asquith @ at 5:52 pm
http://www3.cw56.com/news/articles/local/BO107422/
All the gay cake shop lovey dovey in Southie PR from the Globe is no substitute for insurance.
Southie
James said...
6 Dec 09 at 10:48 pm
Ok he may have been a little hasty in claiming that blacks commit most of the street crime in Britain, but they sure as hell commit a disproportionate amount of it.
Laurence said...
7 Dec 09 at 12:25 am
Tom Roberts has an M.Sc. in Applied Statistics.
Gosh.
No need for good manners if you have an M.Sc. in Applied Statistics.
Shall we ask which fountain of learning accorded him this distinction?
Perhaps not. Since on one side or the other it might cause embarassment.
Leon Greenwell said...
7 Dec 09 at 4:32 am
This thread really seems to have stirred the sewer!
What a ghastly population indeed, Dawkins, exists!
None of this addresses the real problem, which is, of course, grey squirrels, infesting our woods, like the wrong Chinese army!
Von Spreuth said...
7 Dec 09 at 5:32 am
Tell me Gore, do you agree or disagree that more men comit crime than women?
Gaw said...
7 Dec 09 at 7:08 am
Liddle seems to be blaming the impulse to murder a pregnant woman on multiculturalism. Whilst being no fan of multiculturalism I really don’t see where it teaches a tolerance of murder. These two murdering individuals are unusually evil bastards. But last time I checked history shows this type cropping up here, there and everywhere from time to time.
Finally, the suggestion that we’re swapping murder for curry goat is just crappily offensive. Anyone been looked after by an African Caribbean nurse in hospital recently? Anyway, the whole idea that we need continually to justify the existence of these people, the vast majority of whom are law-abiding and hard-working, is rather ridiculous.
Charlotte Gore said...
7 Dec 09 at 9:36 am
VS, as far as I know there’s been no change and men still commit more crimes than women.
So what?
journeyman said...
7 Dec 09 at 10:52 am
@ Charlotte Gore
Theres a thread about this over a Harrys Place (Fabians Gone Mad ) which links to your site here,and one look at your link and the statistics you quote here,which half the planet appears to be reliant upon at the moment as part of the opposing argument to Liddle,(and by the way,you did quote those statistics as the the main part of what the whole thing revolves around didn’t you?)
Well I’m no mathematician,but I suspect that Tom Roberts Msc Applied Statisics is right.As any one with half a brain can guess.
You see–if we say just as an example that in London,50% of all violent crime is committed by those of ethnic “Jedi”background—that statistic is useless unless “interpreted”.
And this you have failed to do.So it is totally misleading in the way that unless “interpreted”it will loose the most important significance.
If 50% of violent crime in London is “Jedi”crime but only 1/10th of the population is “Jedi”–then it will be 10 times more likely for one of “Jedi” background to commit that type of crime.
Percentage of population is all important.
But its clear you wher not aware of this.
Charlotte Gore said...
7 Dec 09 at 11:01 am
Journeyman,
Rod Liddle’s claim is not that ‘blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crime according to demographic distribution’. His claim is that blacks commit the ‘overwhelming majority’ of certain categories of crime, without providing a source.
His argument, as written in the Spectator, is wrong.
Laban said...
7 Dec 09 at 11:37 am
Even if you cheat and just focus on London, the overall number of crimes committed by whites is 53.1%. In fact, the only category of crime in which black people commit the most crimes is in robbery, for which they account for 58% in London.
Charlotte, which table are those figures from ? Your whole critique is based on his lousy figures, so where can I see your source ? Please ?
Let’s have a different argument… at The Charlotte Gore Blog said...
7 Dec 09 at 11:39 am
[...] bitch. I’ve been told I can’t do maths and alternatively patronised and slagged off for daring – yes daring – to call out Rod Liddle. I’m, apparently, bullying a poor unfortunate man having an extended mid-life crisis and I [...]
Von Spreuth said...
7 Dec 09 at 11:54 am
XX Charlotte Gore said…
7 Dec 09 at 9:36 am
VS, as far as I know there’s been no change and men still commit more crimes than women.
So what? XX
Oh? Really?
So you are a rampaging sexist then? Just like people that point out more blacks commit certain kinds of crimes PROPORTIONALY to their numbers in ther population are racist?
Get of those funny cigarettes sweety, they are doing your logic NO use at all.
Charlotte Gore said...
7 Dec 09 at 11:54 am
Laban,
I’ll help you with the research right after you point me to the the source for Rod’s figures… I mean, you think finding the figures in a document I’ve linked to is a bit challenging? Imagine trying to do the same when he’s not linked to his source!
Laurence said...
7 Dec 09 at 12:04 pm
“as far as I know there’s been no change and men still commit more crimes than women”
Ah, stats, logic: such a minefield. Charlotte you can’t possibly know this, can you? You mean that men are convicted of more crimes than women, don’t you?
Of course it’s quite easy to know what you mean and then say or write something that, quite unintentionally, means something a little bit different…
Charlotte Gore said...
7 Dec 09 at 12:08 pm
I’m done with this comments thread, got to work. I’ve written a follow up and that’s my final word.
Von Spreuth said...
7 Dec 09 at 12:09 pm
xx Charlotte Gore said…
7 Dec 09 at 11:54 am
…I’ve linked to is a bit challenging? Imagine trying to do the same when he’s not linked to his source!xx
I linked to mine, but you chose to ignore it. Showing you are just a typical closed minded wanabe fascist wrapped up in “liberal” clothes.
Von Spreuth said...
7 Dec 09 at 12:12 pm
xx Charlotte Gore said…
7 Dec 09 at 12:08 pm
I’m done with this comments thread, got to work. I’ve written a follow up and that’s my final word. xx
OHO!!!
The USUAL liberal/fascist “get out of an argument I have lost” clause.
Well done. You are holding up the tradition PERFECTLY.
journeyman said...
7 Dec 09 at 1:03 pm
@Charlotte Gore
“His (Liddles) claim is that Blacks commit the “overwhelming majority” of certain catagories of crime without providing a source”
If Liddle did state specifically this,then it is doubtful that the Black 2.8% of the population could commit the “overwhelming majority”of certain catergories of crime.
For this to be possible,Blacks would have to commit well over 33 times more of that crime than other ehtnic groups.becuse they comprise 1/33rd of the population.
And even more good news in your favour of your argument…..if we take the statistic presented by you:
We have astounding news for the Black community,because it means Blacks are not all that much more likely to commit crime than Whites.
So–no problem right.All the social workers and supposed racists can pack up and go home.?
Er..no,not quiet.
“Even if you cheat and just focus on London,the overall number of crimes commited by Whites is 53.1.%”
So–the final conclusion–(IF)Liddle did state that which you claim—-then yes is unlikely that it is correct,for the reason I have stated above.
BUT–and here again is the “RUB”,which is not only of major significance,but the only factor of sociological importance.
Your statistic claims “Whites”53.1.%–overall crime.
What is the Black % statistic?
If the Black statistic(just too use an example)we would make a conservative estimate and say (In London)
it was only 33% of overall crime–then the black community has a massive problem.
Because 1/3 of crime commited by only roughly 3% or lets say 10% in London of the population, would mean
that it is 33% X 10 = 3 (3 times more likely for Blacks to be criminals.
So two things can be happening here.
(1)That Liddle has stated something which is incorrect but also unimportant to the whole matter because it is the % per 1000 of that group which is of the important statistic.
(2)You by not investigating this equation will be forever oblivious to any ¨such potential problems afflicting the Black community–if they do exist.
Statistics are flying around all over the place and no one is tackling the most important ones.
Gregory said...
7 Dec 09 at 1:51 pm
“Ok he may have been a little hasty in claiming that blacks commit most of the street crime in Britain, but they sure as hell commit a disproportionate amount of it.”
In a black hood, they will be hard pushed to do less of it. If we are being fair.
Blacks don’t do most of the crime in Southie, they do in Roxbury. A lot of the folks going to church on a Sunday are blacks, it is not genetic.
And, jail pop stats in the USA, ARE determined by the lippy interchanges with cops.
If I am stopped, I go yes-sir. no-sir, I don’t slabber and spit at a state trooper @ the side of the road, and my reward, is no rootin in the trunk or under the seat.
The cops find stuff only when they look.
Southie
Gregory said...
7 Dec 09 at 2:01 pm
From memory
Southie spent a lot of time in jail mostly for good reasons. Joe Arpaio really hated me, Arizona was off-limits to me.
“The estimated number of new admissions totaled nearly 9.8 million for 1993, up from an estimated 6.0 million in the annual period ending June 30, 1983″
At the start of the 1990s, the U.S. had more Black men (between the ages of 20 and 29) under the control of the nation’s criminal justice system than the total number in college.
I seem to recall 40 percent of African American men
are being permanently disenfranchised from voting as a projection (2000?)
Source: Thomas, P., “Study Suggests Black Male Prison Rate Impinges on Political Process,” The Washington Post (1997, January 30), p. A3.
The US may have incarcerated 20 millions per annum.
Gregory
Jails and Jail Inmates 1993-94: Census of Jails and Survey of Jails
U.S. Department of Justice
Office of Justice Programs
Bureau of Justice Statistics
Bulletin
April 1995, NCJ-151651
Jails and Jail Inmates 1993-94: Census of Jails and Survey of Jails
By Craig A. Perkins, James J. Stephan, and Allen J. Beck
BJS Statisticians
Gregory said...
7 Dec 09 at 2:09 pm
“Racism isn’t ’saying bad things about black people’, it’s about believing that someone’s race dictates their personality, their behaviour, their intelligence and so on.”
If a black person says a mick smells of bacon and cabbage, he might be right. His nose might be more tuned up to smells he finds a bit icky.
We are all racists – when Chimp groups split,
they chirp to each other as cousins for ages, then one day, they attack their relatives.
We are a gang species.
Gregory
Old Holborn said...
7 Dec 09 at 2:56 pm
Tell you what.
We could all live blog this from Stockwell Tube at say, 11.30 tonight. In the little park just over the road. Bring your lap tops. See you there.
Charlotte Gore said...
7 Dec 09 at 3:00 pm
haha
Leon Greenwell said...
7 Dec 09 at 3:14 pm
‘Old Holbourn’ – though I’m an old dweller of Brixton, and lover of his ‘auld hame’, I know as an auld habitue of Camberwel Green, that without a Sten Gun, yer aht of yer tiny mind!
asquith said...
7 Dec 09 at 6:05 pm
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/liddle-under-fire-over-racist-blog-1835496.html
David Davis_libertarian Alliance said...
7 Dec 09 at 8:29 pm
Rod Liddle is the current occupant of the chair-with-a-spike-up-it. This person is charged with saying the things which lots of people think on the basis of as much empirical observation as they have the time to manage, but are prohibited [by law] from saying out loud themselves. Soon they will be prohibited from _thinking_ it.
Rod Liddle is a “famous journalist”: the British State can’t just right now automatically turn up with Armed Police and MP4s outside his door, seize all his computer, wives and children, turn his house over, and bundle him away….yet. But they are working on it.
Not being able to say what one thinks and observes about the [kind of] people who [seem to] [be involved in] the commission and suffering of [most] interpersonal crime, is a technique of the GramscoFabiaNazis which is particularly focussed on the undoing of the bonds of liberty and free thought which bins us as a civilisation.
Attacking Rod Liddle for articulating what 90% of the (native) population of Blackburn, Accrington Rawtenstall, Hebden Bridge, Slaidburn, Culgaith, Kettlethorpe (a real place) Todmorden and other similar ordinary dorps think, merely shows the scale of the problem.
As a libertarian, I cannot be racist by definition: else I could not bring myself to be as simply-Hayekian as I am on our blog. But I think that Charlotte will cause herself to have become “misquoted” over this one….
David Davis_libertarian Alliance said...
7 Dec 09 at 8:31 pm
Sorry” “…binds us…” as a civilisation….
(not “bins” us – wrong meaning!)
Old Holborn said...
7 Dec 09 at 8:37 pm
You don’t even want to KNOW the percentage of gang rapes committed by blacks in London. I’ll tell you anyway. So you are not so ignorant.
94% of all gang rapes are committed by black youths. 60% of their victims are white.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jun/05/gender.ukcrime
Charlotte Gore said...
7 Dec 09 at 8:46 pm
See, you’ve posted a source – huge difference.
Leon Greenwell said...
7 Dec 09 at 8:50 pm
When are we going to legalise gun crime?
This is the only way to reduce the life expectancy levels of Harlem
The ‘Big Apple’ will be trusting in ‘god’ next, for gooodness sake!
Old Holborn said...
7 Dec 09 at 8:50 pm
You thick cow.
Where in my source does it say 94% of gang rapes are performed by blacks? Where does it say 60% of the victims are white?
Charlotte Gore said...
7 Dec 09 at 8:56 pm
It doesn’t say that (at least I don’t think it does, haven’t read it obviously) but the point is you’ve provided a source that people can check…
… or is the point you’re making that the source I’ve linked to doesn’t give the stats I say it does?
Page 85.
Charlotte Gore said...
7 Dec 09 at 9:28 pm
Or maybe you’re just fucking about and I’m wound up to fuck on account of being bombarded by crap for three days straight.
I guess that’s why your URL is bastard old holborn and not cuddly old holborn, eh?
Old Holborn said...
7 Dec 09 at 10:03 pm
See what I did there?
If you want to play at Wembley, learn the skills. You have the talent, but need the focus. Attacking those who state the obvious is not blogging. So get on with blogging. Tell the world what it didn’t know. Educate.
Leon Greenwell said...
7 Dec 09 at 11:50 pm
…and by the way, nothing excuses rap music – not even curried goat
Nothing is more responsible for the plague of ‘Arthurs’, in the obscene stench of labourers, even
We’ll be able to smell sociology, in the perverted landscapes of Windsor, next
Someone with Common sense said...
8 Dec 09 at 2:10 pm
Second, your main assertion about the crime rates – that the ‘overwhelming majority’ of certain types of crime are committed by young Afro-Caribbean males is, basically, wrong. Even if you cheat and just focus on London, the overall number of crimes committed by whites is 53.1%. In fact, the only category of crime in which black people commit the most crimes is in robbery, for which they account for 58% in London. This, Rod, is not an overwhelming majority by any stretch of the imagination. Are you now going to qualify your claim further by limiting yourself to specific districts of London? By the way, as a curious aside, whites commit 63% of the burglaries.. Did you know that, Rod?
—————————————————
9% of the population of London is black according to the latest figures yet you say 58% of certain crimes is committed by afro-Caribbean males – that doesn’t add up. does it? A white male talks about Afro-Caribbean males – Clearly he a racist, clearly he should be lock away in Prison for a million years and never be allowed to talk to anyone, for ‘em…… stating the truth.
intolerant said...
8 Dec 09 at 2:42 pm
In my eyes the author of this article can best be described as an offensive moron. Let us NOT forget the heinous crime and who it was committed by. Can the do-gooding left wing meddling pratts please do something about the THE CRIME instead of kicking up a fuss and getting all offended when someone points out the truth about proportions of our diverse culture. Rod is basing his argument on facts – the fact being that a disproportionate amount of these type of crimes are being carried out by Afro-Carribean men and juveniles.
David Davis_libertarian Alliance said...
8 Dec 09 at 5:53 pm
IF Rod Liddle is right, and if the stats add up (I only had a meat-cleaver in my locked car’s driver-door-pocket, to wave about at traffic lights in Brixton in the 90s, because sometimes “people” would “come to the car” while I was stopped – it was an xpensive car then, £22,000 – odd) then, then, then….
…then we have to ask who has been responsible for two things:
(1) the perception that “young blakc males in cities” commit the majority of certain types of crime, and
(2) if so, who is responsible for this clearly erroneous perception?
If it is not erroneous, then who has engineered the schools and the Wireless Tele Vision, so as to bring about this terrible crime against “black youth”, alienating them to such an extent that [it is said that] they go round robbing and raping and murdering and shooting [ with mini-uzis mostly, I noticed]?
Federico Lister said...
8 Dec 09 at 11:38 pm
7% of the population of England & Wales is Roman Catholic – 20% of the prison population is Catholic.
Do we need to look at cultural factors that make Catholics more criminal?
David Bouvier said...
9 Dec 09 at 10:17 pm
Charlotte,
You really shouldn’t go around be quite so self-assured Rod is wrong on the stats:
The Met’s Operation Trident reports stats, reviewed by the House of Commons Home Affairs Select Committee, who comment:
“58. In London, the overrepresentation of young black men in gun crime appears to be undisputed. Figures from Operation Trident, a Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) operation set up to combat shootings among black Londoners, show that, of all MPS firearms homicides and shootings in 2006, 75% of victims and 79% of suspects were black.[86].”
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200607/cmselect/cmhaff/181/18105.htm
There are also figures supporting Liddle’s numbers on knife crime. I couldn’t in 10 minutes of googling confirm the others, but you may want to consider the possibility that Rod was quoting credible stats about violent crime in London.
Feel free to make a nuanced argument about what interpretation we should make, but your claim that Liddle was basically lying doesn’t really stand up does it.
Leon Greenwell said...
9 Dec 09 at 10:32 pm
Royal Blood
Ann said...
11 Dec 09 at 8:19 pm
Firstly, Von Spreuth, Rod Liddle was speaking about this article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1233207/Pregnant-teen-thrown-canal-rappers-plotted-murder-internet-chatroom.html
I think Rod Liddle uses the term African-Caribbean because the perpetrators in the story linked in his article are an Afro-Caribbean and an African , so rather than extend himself to typing “African and Afro-Caribbean” or even African/Afro-Caribbean he thought he’d lazily just extend to African-Caribbean. There is an annoying trend growing of using this term as a lazy way or referring to both African and Afro-Caribbean people.
There was a large Afro-Caribbean and African population here decades before this very recent trend of rap and gang culture. Why Rod Liddle speaks of rap I don’t know seeing as it is American. The only music that’s really permeated from the West Indies into British culture is a little bit of Mento, Calypso and Soca, a bit of Dancehall, Rocksteady, Ska (Bluebeat) and Reggae, the latter forms influencing Mods, Punk, Two Tone, the original rudeboy skinheads (not the Neo scum), some pop, and forms of dance music.
Von Spreuth said
“So long as you go around wearing your rasta coulours and dread locks, smoking your funny ciggarettes, you will NEVER be “BRITISH”. Exactly the same as I say about any foriegner in any country.”
Are you for real! What did you swallow, a book of lazy stereotypes. Even in Jamaica itself, Rastas are a very small percentage of the population, let alone the rest of the West Indies. How should I suppose you to be? Goose-stepping? Heiling? Copious amounts of sausage, cabbage and beer consuming? I could take it further and nastier but I won’t, because logic dictates that in modern Germany not all Germans are like that. Here in the UK though German stereotypes like this do popup, not infrequently, and I’ve often thought ‘Oh give them a break, times moved on’, but you’ve given me food for thought.
Von Spreuth said
Whereas Britains black population is greatly West Indian. Again, as I said. WE in Germany, don’t get subintelligent idiots that do not know which way around a baseball cap goes,wearing trousers with the waist band around the ankles, and looking like a shower of monkeys on BMX bikes shooting and stabbing each other and innocent passers by.
“Britains black population is greatly West Indian Britain’s”
Er, no it’s not (the total population figures in the table on the right hand side are the most recent):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_British
Now I really don’t know why some youth choose to dress in this stupid fashion. It is a source of irritation to a lot of older people (people over 24). It’s as if you, Von Spreuth presume that there are old West Indian men walking around dressing like that. I have had to cuss a few kids myself for this backwards style of dress, but I can only hope they soon realise that showing your boxer shorts to the whole world makes you look foolish, not cool. An example of not even style over substance, rather no style no substance. Also, this style of dress isn’t limited to Afro-Caribbean male youth.
The BMX thing I don’t know about. Born and raised in London, lived here for over two decades and I’ve never seen a bike used in that context, nor know anyone who has. You must know people who live in some seriously rough areas/estates.
The only BMX craze I remember there being was after E.T. came out.
The thuggish elements of the youth population in this country are a result of the awful incompetence of New Labour not multiculturalism (Whatever that really is).
They stripped parents and teachers of power to discipline, and these kids know it. The kids over here have to be the most under disciplined, softly softly treated kids on the planet, and are they peace loving hippies as a result? No, they are completely without mercy. It’s like in Lord of the flies, but worse, because the adults are actually present. Older generation West Indians (my grandparents) lived by the maxim of “spare the rod, spoil the child”. This does not necessarily mean just smacking a child, but ensuring that they are disciplined to know boundaries. It’s just a shame that some people were quick to drop this off when raising their own, because it did not fit the general trend of the society they lived in. African kids too do things that once they would never have been allowed to get away with. Talking to African friends, you know that once if one of their youth began to show the signs of being rebellious, their family would pack them off to Africa to continue their schooling under heavy manners, but nowadays things have for some reason changed. Even in some Asian communities, the cracks have begun to show with some of their youth, which you would never have seen coming once. Add to this the troubled indigenous youth and you can see that New Labour have really screwed this country over.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1214549/Feral-youths-How-generation-violent-illiterate-young-men-living-outside-boundaries-civilised-society.html
I tell you, if the youth of this country ever wake up to how this government has sold them down s**t creek, this country is going to burn. But then again maybe that’s what New Labour want, having sold Britain’s soul to the devil and all.
People in the UK have become a lot more materialistic, and celebrity and wealth worshipping under this government. It does help that this has coincided with the breakthrough of American ghettofabulous bling rap culture. Youngsters see this, and they aspire to this. If some of them can’t afford things/ get them legitimately, then have no scruples about finding other ways to get what they want. The only way society can fix this is to return to the practice of valuing things like character and honour above the material.
How New Labour must laugh when they’ve killed this country, sold it off, and sold it out (I mean Gordon Brown selling off the gold reserve when gold was at a deep low. What did he think? ‘Oh gold, it may have been valued for millennia but its had its day now, it’s finished’.), they sold off the school playing fields and then talk about an obesity crisis and how kids need to get active. Countless youth centres have been shut down on New Labours watch. For years we have heard troubled youths interviewed on TV saying they get into trouble/ stand around drinking cider, because they’ve got nothing else to do. So what does the government do? Nothing. (Except reel of some lameness about how things are actually great under their government. Huh?) It’s almost as if they want chaos. Yet still for all the mess the government have made, the public ultimately blame ethnics, ignoring who’s really brought this whole situation about in the first place. History it would appear teaches people nothing.
I remember when money was flowing in the 80’s, I remember seeing yuppies and their Porshes. I remember the streets being clean and places looking well looked after.
Under New Labours supposed economic boom, how come everywhere looked so grotty and uncared for. Where was the feel good factor.
They encouraged people to get into debt, made it easier to go bankrupt, all trying to propagate a fake sense of wealth and aspiration , when really people where spending money they did not have. House prices were/are grossly jacked up, but rather than wait for house prices to fall people kept on buying, saying the house prices might go up. Self-fulfilling prophecy anyone? I remember reading an article in which the author was talking about how her parent’s generation frowned on debt, but amongst the middle class of her generation, it was perfectly acceptable. The tone of the article was as if she was bragging about being in debt, like it was the done thing. The chickens have come home to roost now though. Note we are in the midst of a credit crunch, not cash crunch, credit. Shows how much people were living beyond their means and bought into New Labour’s let the fake good times roll, money is flowing crap
I grew up in London, and in the 80′s and most of the 90′s, it was nothing like it is now.
Now it is a true s**t pit, dirty and chaotic. It reminds me of when as a child I used to think how grim and chaotic New York looked in Hill Street Blues and Cagney and Lacey, and was glad I didn’t live there. In the early mid 90’s, I remember reading Mica Paris say New York was so dirty, and she hoped London never got like that. Well it did. London by contrast was a big city that was calm and quite sedate and orderly. Public transport was clean and, there wasn’t chewing gum, fast-food rubbish, leaves or alcohol induced vomit all over the pavements, and the buildings weren’t filthy. When starting secondary school you were worried about the myth of having your head flushed in the toilet, not being stabbed.
Hmm, at least New York’s been cleaned up.
If Margret Thatcher declared that there is no such thing as community, then Tony Blair and his mob have made sure that it is so.
The other side to this story:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-471529/Grandchildren-Windrush-quit-Britain-better-life-Caribbean.html
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=7074
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-416212/One-Londoners-born-outside-Britain.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1062314/Middle-classes-leading-flight-250-000-quit-London.html
Ann said...
12 Dec 09 at 7:07 pm
Sorry, part of the above should read:
People in the UK have become a lot more materialistic, and celebrity and wealth worshipping under this government. It does * NOT * help that this has coincided with the breakthrough of American ghettofabulous bling rap culture.
Winston the Smithy said...
12 Dec 09 at 8:49 pm
“….Inner City slums are always crime hotspots whoever happens to be living in them at the time, which means that people who live there are also most likely to be victims of crime. It’s a ‘living in a shit hole dominated by unemployment, under-education and deprivation’ issue, not a race issue….”
Fact, start looking at which racial demographic predominately make up these slums. Worse still, the typical, Marxist, Feminist, Liberal-Socialist response is not to blame the activities of criminals, but to blame society for creating them. It will of course use the excuses of unemployment, under-education and deprivation with which to absolve the criminals of all wrongdoing, stating that they commit crime because they are trapped within this “living sh*thole.” It’s simply about excuses after excuses.
Sadly, when it comes to the African/Caribbean community there are some home truths that of course the above groups never admit:
1. The West Indians and the Africans have been in the UK for quite some time now. It has meant that many have failed to integrate into British society, even though many of them are into their 3rd and 4th generations being born and brought up within the UK/London.
2. Every child within the UK has the same access to the same state education, but we see that the Afro-Caribbean males predominately lie at the bottom of the pass rate ladder. The usual blame is of surrounding and upbringing as to while they fail, yet when whites are in the same boat there are no excuses for them.
3. Employment ties in with point two. Why should a young black male be given a job just because of his skin colour compared to that of a white person? Is that not prejudice? Ah, silly me, I forget Harman’s ‘positive discrimination’ bill. Young black men are unemployed because I hate to say it, they’re too busy listening to rap/hiphop, trying to get laid, gang banging, people battering and smoking hydroponically grown cannabis (heavy grade skunk).
4. Sure, bring out the figures from the government, yes, the same government that took us into Iraq under false pretenses, breaking all of the rules for going to war with another country. Bring out the figures of politicians who will lie, cheat and steal in order to cover their tracks and better their lives. Do you really believe that these ‘figures’ from the Home Office are real? I for one don’t believe a word that the politician’s speak. Therefore it’s easy to assume that if they can falsify documents for going into war, resulting in the deaths of innocent Iraqis and British troops, then they sure as hell can doctor stats in order to make their multicultural social experiment seem as though it’s working brilliantly and everything is rosy.
To see the truth all one has to do is look.
London has turned into a City of Crime, Grime and Ghettoisation. This has been solely attributed by immigration to it on an unprecedented scale, bringing in millions of third world immigrants, uneducated, undisciplined, disrespectful of our culture, diseased and importing with them their cultural conflicts from back home with which to turn London into a multicultural battleground. It will of course get far worse than it is now.
To finish off, even if the figures you give that 58% of of robbery is committed by black males and that obviously 46.9% of all crime is committed by non whites then this paints a disturbing picture. All one has to do is look at the size of the racial demographics in this country, to see that the overwhelming majority of crime, per person, per race is committed by black people.
A 2001 consensus puts the number of whites in the UK at 54million. It puts the population of blacks in the UK at 1.2 million, which anyone good at maths puts the overall number of blacks in the UK (in 2001) at 2% of the overall population.
Per percentage of racial demographic, in order to find equilibrium, blacks should only be attributing to 2% of total crime in the UK. Instead we see that they are committing 2,300% more. It thus paints the simple picture that blacks commit far more crime per head than white people do.
They have exactly the same rights as whites do. Under NuLabour black people have been elevated in class above that of white people. White people are second class citizens within the UK and the typical Liberal, Socialist, Marxist, Feminist reply to this is that white people are in charge throughout the UK in business. My reply is why shouldn’t they be? After all, this is our country and statistics prove that blacks are lowest in the exam results. Why should they be given privilege?
I seriously think that Charlotte Gore is blind to the real world around her. More so if she lives in London, she lives in a bubble, utterly oblivious and ignorant to what goes on around her.
London has been destroyed by multiculturalism. Britain is being destroyed by multiculturalism. Sadly, this multiculturalism is a cross between African and Asian immigration to it, predominately from the third world, far inferior cultures of Islamic lands and their peoples. And of course if you do not believe that these people are from inferior cultures to our own then their emigration from them, proves that they are.
If you do not question the facts around you and continue to ignore them, then all you are doing is creating a hell of a scenario that will be played out on the streets of the UK. Multiculturalism has never worked. It never will. It’s about time these twits like the said blogger of this blog opened their eyes and their minds a bit more and educated themselves on history, instead of trying to create their own multicultural utopia, that will never, ever work.
Winston the Smithy – thedestructionofbritain.blogspot.com
P.S. Charlotte, I am not a member of the BNP or a supporter of them (before you decide to ‘bin’ this post), but I fully respect their rights “AS A LIBERTARIAN OF THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY OF THE UK,” to espouse their own views and run as a political party to represent many voices within the UK.
Liberty is the freedom to offend and speak freely. Freedom of speech is sacrosanct and must always be 100% free.
Charlotte Gore said...
12 Dec 09 at 9:16 pm
Which may well be true, but that’s certainly not my attitude. Individuals are to blame for their actions and must be held accountable.
A criminal is a criminal. A crime is a crime. What difference does the race of the criminal make to anyone? If people think some people should be let off from certain crimes because of their race, then I’m against that. I’m not interested in understanding criminals. I’m interested only in stopping them.
But ‘deporting the ethnic minorities’ and ‘banning immigration’ doesn’t actually fix any of the problems that cause the sort of yobbery that effects not just black youths in London but white youths where I live.
Should people be able to speak out against multiculturalism? Yes. Should people be able to openly talk about problems within certain communities? Yes. Should all people of every race be treated the same under the law? Yes.
Yes, but ultimately this blog is not public space, it is my personal property and my property rights trump their rights to free speech. Nowhere is it written in the manual of Libertarianism that I must provide a forum for people to give me shit.
Charlotte Gore said...
12 Dec 09 at 9:36 pm
Also the proportionality argument… you can’t take figures from London which does in fact have completely different racial demographics, and then focus on crimes committed mostly in London and mostly by blacks and then extrapolate those figures to the whole of the country for all types of crime.
Winston the Smithy said...
13 Dec 09 at 12:33 am
Charlotte, you’re not really getting this are you? I see you chose to comment on very little of my reply?
The figures speak for themselves – 46.9% of overall crime committed by the black community in London when they make up 2% of the population – 1.2million people (2001 stats)? You don’t find that paints a rather obvious picture?
“A criminal is a criminal. A crime is a crime. What difference does the race of the criminal make to anyone?”
Actually the above statistics do make the point. It proves that black people are more prone to criminal behaviour than to white people are. All one has to do is look at Africa and the blatant disregard for human life. Throughout time we have seen African tribal behaviour, we find utterly deplorable whereas they don’t even bat an eyelid. We can go back to the slave trade – the greatest lie ever told, for the simple reason that the overwhelming majority, of not just blacks but whites also haven’t got a clue that the Europeans NEVER captured them. They were sold by the tribesmen to Muslim slavers who then sold them to us. However, you won’t read that in the Slave books, because it’s not politically correct.
The difference of race makes a valid point as already stated, that blacks, per ratio of black population commit far more crimes than white people do. A tiger and a cat are both animals, but you wouldn’t have a pet lion would you? What I mean is that you are forgetting that black people, in the UK, many are still behaving like animals, feral animals that is within society, even though they’re 2nd/3rd/4th generation. They haven’t integrated into British society, which was a hell of a lot different before the flood gates burst and the immigrants came pouring in.
Are you so oblivious to not see what cultural and moral relativism does to a society?
“But ‘deporting the ethnic minorities’ and ‘banning immigration’ doesn’t actually fix any of the problems that cause the sort of yobbery that effects not just black youths in London but white youths where I live.”
I believe that you’re now quoting BNP policy (of which I’ve read). In fact, there are more countries now adopting this policy Charlotte. It makes perfect sense to me. That is if done fairly and properly. You don’t just evict someone because of their skin colour, you evict them for their misdemeanors. Ethnic minorities who got into the UK illegaly would be removed and never allowed to return, regardless of having children here. It’s the policy of every immigrant to spawn upon getting on these lands, even better if you’re already carrying a child. Asylum seekers who have been seen to bypass safe havens for the UK would be removed immediately. Makes sense for two reason. Firstly they’re obviously economic immigrants and secondly they’ll no doubt have ignored countries of similar culture, compared to ours that is far different. Anyway, I’m not discussing this as it’ll take too long.
Have you wondered why “white youth” now behave like the black youths? They have adopted inferior black American and African sub culture as their own. When you live in the inner city of London, all you need to do is see that the schools are overwhelmingly ethnic. Thus the child relates to their peers. Hence why we have white children in London who say “yi ge’ mee blud, you know what I is sayin’ innit.”
What is happening is that our culture is being destroyed for the sake of Black vulgar culture where women and bitches and hoes, drugs are the name of the game and it’s all about bling, bling and more bling.
I speak the way I do because I’ve lived not just with black women and had children with black women but I know black culture inside out and it is the complete opposite to white culture.
“Should people be able to speak out against multiculturalism? Yes. Should people be able to openly talk about problems within certain communities? Yes. Should all people of every race be treated the same under the law? Yes.”
I do not deny any of these words above whatsoever, but I am saying that I agree very much in what Rod Liddle has said. He has the balls to address a growing problem within our society. Tell me Charlotte, when people of another culture, who have grown up under that culture and educated in that culture to know and understand that it is their ancestry, what do you think will happen in another country, they happen to live in, not of their culture, when they become the majority? Do you think they will give up their culture and adopt their new land’s one or continue to promote their own?
If you truly believe that they will then you need to seriously educate yourself. War, throughout time has been fought for the sole reason of protecting cultural immolation. Empires grew so as to promote their own cultures, but more importantly to keep them from disappearing. It’s what I describe as the ‘canopy’ theory. Like the trees in the rainforest, when they start off after hatching from the seed, they make a beeline for the canopy layer. They don’t care about anything around them, for they know that once they reach the canopy layer, they will not have to worry about anything. This is the approach civilisations took. This is what Empire’s did. They did it to protect their cultures and yet here in the UK we have allowed cultures, far, far inferior to ourselves not just to come into the UK, but total freedom to grow. We also fund them to do so.
How long will it be before people make the distinct observation that races are very different to one another. I’m not disputing the fact that black people in society cannot integrate within British society, but they only do so when they are within the extreme minority in schools. It means that they are the only two black people in a class of thirty, being taught British history and culture and not African. They can go to Africa for that. Here in London, it’s the other way around. The whites are the only two in the class of thirty being taught multiculturalism, but more so how terrible the British were, the same British, whom the Black people came to live with from the 50′s onwards.
It’s ignorance Charlotte and unless people see the writing on the wall, ethnic minorities will be targeted in the future and the very fascism, racism and yobbish behaviour that the left has tried its best to destroy, will explode in chaos in the UK. There will be no safe haven for ethnic minority. It will be civil war, bloody civil war and a short one. It will also bring about the hatred of ethnic minority and other cultures. It’s so simply obvious to see.
“Also the proportionality argument… you can’t take figures from London which does in fact have completely different racial demographics, and then focus on crimes committed mostly in London and mostly by blacks and then extrapolate those figures to the whole of the country for all types of crime”
I haven’t, but I will say that the overwhelming number of blacks live in London as per proportion of their racial demographic. It thus means that more than any place in the UK, blacks commit more crimes in London. It also proves as well that if the UK was predominately black it would be like an anarchy in an African Country, somewhere like Rwanda, Sierra Leonne, the Congo etc etc.
Do you not realise that if there are 1.2million blacks in the UK (of which the majority live in London) for 46.9% of all crime in London to be committed by blacks speaks volumes? If there are 750k blacks in London for example, we know there are at least 5million whites. Yet they are committing far more crime that an overwhelming white majority.
Charlotte, this is not about people giving you sh*t. It’s all about people simply blowing apart your argument on multiculturalism.
One thing you probably are oblivious to is that people vote with their feet. The hypocrites who are the liberal middle classes, continue to promote the multicultural experiment and how much they love cultural diversity, while packing the 2 kids in their 4X4 to travel and live down in the SW, an overwhelmingly white part of the UK. In other words they’re not prepared to live in the non British ghettoes they’ve created.
I left London after 16 years there. 16 years far too long in my opinion, where I saw a beautiful city turn into an utter sh*thole. The film industry continues to portray London as it was in the Harry Palmer films of the seventies. It’s selling the world a lie. London is on its way to becoming like Pakistan.
Unless something seriously radical is done to integrate ethnic minorities and remove many who shouldn’t be here this country will go down the plughole within the next 40 years. I also guarantee that when you’ve lived a bit more and seen the destruction that is happening because of multiculturalism and 3rd world immigration from outside our own indigenous racial demographic, you will realise that the liberal, socialist multicultural utopia will never, ever work.
East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet. It’s really that simple, but people still want to skate uphill.
Liberal Conspiracy » The supposed criminality of black people said...
13 Dec 09 at 7:06 pm
[...] December 13, 2009 at 7:06 pm There’s a paradox raised by the reaction to “Rod” Liddle’s mostly incorrect claim that “the overwhelming majority of street crime, knife crime, gun crime, robbery [...]
Winston the Smithy said...
13 Dec 09 at 8:16 pm
“Liberal Conspiracy » The supposed criminality of black people said…”
Yes, I read it & replied on it. It’s a pile of left wing liberal rubbish, the same rubbish espoused by Charlotte Gore. It’s the typical left wing nonsense of not wanting to offend people, even though they’re causing a major impact to community cohesion and society overall.
The more ethnic minorities grow in the UK (predominately from the blacks and Muslims), the more the UK will sink deeper into the sewage tank.
If however blacks and Muslims choose to adopt British culture and tradition as there own then there won’t be a problem will there? However they won’t. Blacks will continue to harp, whinge and moan on about the slave trade (even though none of them were) demanding free meal tickets and constant apologies, because their ancestors happened to have the same thing happen to them as all races and nationalities on this world had throughout time and the Muslims will continue to worship Mad Muhammad the Maniac and seek to promote their 7th century, barbaric, totalitarian, oppressive cult on the rest of the world.
It’s a lose lose situation and thank God, I’ll be getting off this sinking ship in the very near future. It’s not a case that the UK’s hit the iceberg but the lifeboats are full and the ship’s sinking.
Leon Greenwell said...
13 Dec 09 at 9:16 pm
I can’t argue with this, unfortunately
‘British’ culture seems now to be mainly about hating Irish people – even though anybody who’s been through one or two wars with the Men’s Army is Irish
Roger Dodger said...
17 Dec 09 at 12:43 am
“Racially profiling crimes is not an argument against multiculturalism.”
Well you are kinda mixing things up here.
Rod was talking about a culture not a race. It just so happens this culture is identified as having young black males belonging to it. Rod is not suggesting it is a genetic facet at the route of the problem.
“it’s about believing that someone’s race dictates their personality, their behaviour, their intelligence and so on. Rod Liddle is not ’spot on’. He’s wrong.”
Where did Rod suggest race was the reason?
“I’m an individualist, I take other people as individuals. I don’t believe there’s anything useful, worthwhile or relevant information to be drawn from looking at someone’s race, sex, sexuality or whatever.”
So is there no interest whatever in trying to understand and mitigate the fact that a group easily identified by race, gender and age clearly trend disproportionally towards certain behaviour? If not tell Trevor Phillips.
“Judging someone based on what other people with the same skin colour have done? That’s retarded.”
Who was doing that? Ignoring cold facts due to a higher concept of ‘individualism’ is retarded. Mega fucking retarded and is the same fault socialists everywhere make. Seems your utopia just has a different name.
Leon Greenwell said...
17 Dec 09 at 1:22 am
Some people are just going to be a problem and the ‘British’ ‘Army’s’ insistence on a perpetual open door just gives them an opportunity
Can’t communicate in a common vernacular?
Insists on a ‘man to man’, ‘one to one’ situation perpetually?
Man, you are talking about an Assassin
Leon Greenwell said...
17 Dec 09 at 5:41 pm
More Britt-brain shite:-
I have recently detected the following dichotomy
a) They attempt to introduce home-oh-sexuality into Christianity
b) They attempt to introduce Christianity into home-oh-sexuality
Where is Benny Hill when we need him?
M Schartz said...
22 Dec 09 at 2:00 am
Charlotte,
There is no reason to expect groups to have equal propensities to criminality though. Testosterone, often linked with violent crime, differs between racial groups.
“Mean testosterone levels in blacks were 19% higher than in whites, and free testosterone levels were 21% higher. Both these differences were statistically significant.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3455741
Also, are readily identifiable clusters of genes corresponding to traditional continental ethnic groups. Two groups that form distinct clusters are likely to exhibit different frequency distributions over various genes, leading to group differences.
MAO-A variants which place people at greater risk of aggressive behaviour (in combination with childhood maltreatment) also show different frequency distributions across groups.
http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/120-1250/2441/
http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2007/01/metric-on-space-of-genomes-and.html
Also, note global crime rates are consistent with the rates observed by Liddle.
Rushton, J.P., & Whitney, G. (2002). Cross-national variation in violent crime rates: Race, r-K theory, and income. Population and Environment, 23, 501-511
http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/P&E%20Crime.pdf
CMCarter said...
29 Dec 09 at 6:03 am
I’m quite disturbed by the comments of Von Spreuth. How can a German person dictate who is considered British? I’m British and I don’t go around thinking that the black people of this country are foreigners, or even not British. If they are citizens of Britain then they are British, it’s really quite simple. Citizenship is not a racial issue.
I am however, going to make the assumption that Von Spreuth is a middle class, right wing bigot. My friend, I don’t know what ‘yard’ you’ve been wandering through to conduct your wonderful research on British multiculturalism but personally it’s been a few years since I saw anyone with a back to front baseball cap. Unless they were being ironic, innit.
Fortunately your ‘findings’ can benefit many people, as it seems you won’t be leaving your beloved country, with its extra-super-nice Africans, ever again to pollute another ‘sub-intelligent’ country with their awful jogging bottoms and BMXs.
*applause*
On a side note to the person who sited Cornwall.
Yes, the population is predominantly white and one of the poorest in the country and the crime rate is low but what it seems you fail to consider is that Cornwall is very rural. There is a lot of countryside and coast where large amounts of people simply don’t live. Even the biggest towns have a much lower population than is average in the UK. There is also a large majority of older people to consider, oh and hippies.
Racist, sexist global warming denier may become editor of The Independent - Allison Kilkenny - Unreported - True/Slant said...
10 Jan 10 at 1:44 pm
[...] Gore explains why this is so far off the mark: Even if you cheat and just focus on London, the overall number of crimes committed by whites is [...]
Greenhoof » Blog Archive » Climate Denier Rod Liddle Considered For Editor Position at The Independent said...
11 Jan 10 at 7:19 pm
[...] here.…and falsely accusing black men of being behind the majority of crimes in London while mocking the entire Black British community for contributing nothing but “rap music” and “goat [...]
Rod Liddle’s Racism. « ModernityBlog said...
12 Jan 10 at 2:57 am
[...] 2: Thanks to Five Chinese Crackers who pointed me towards Charlotte Gore’s Rod Liddle Has Shit For Brains. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Have You Got the University Gene?Words now banned [...]
Andrew Pelt said...
16 Jan 10 at 3:29 am
I found your post on my (almost) daily obsession with blog searching. Thanks for the informative blog post as I can certainly appreciate all of the hard work that goes into maintaining a site like this! Thanks again.
Where is the freedom in speech? « The meanderings of a mammal said...
18 Jan 10 at 2:24 pm
[...] and to transmit them, others have the right to challenge him for them. What happened recently was Charlotte Gore looking into the evidence and exposing his writing as unsubstantiated prejudice. Bennett seems to [...]
irishtony said...
18 Jan 10 at 5:07 pm
Liddle is a self promoting idiot.
So what percentage of the Afro Caribbean community commit these crimes?
“He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts—for support rather than for illumination”
Dirty Euro said...
24 Feb 10 at 8:35 am
Rod Liddle is an evil cunt of the highest order.
He claims bullying is trivial and does not matter. He is an evil thug.
All this guff he talks about black men doing mugging then he says bullying does not matter. Well if he thinks violence and abuse does not matter why does he claim to care about black men doing muggings and knife crime, or is he a psychotic idiot who thinks violence only counts if it is done by “blackies”.
Also he is obsessed by black men and yet needs viagra to satisfy white women. I wonder if there is a link there?
Rodless Liddle.
Hmmmmmm.
Always win when you're singing » Blog Archive » Racism isn’t acceptable no matter how ‘clever’ you are said...
30 May 10 at 5:45 am
[...] Gore takes this part of Liddle’s reasoning apart on her own blog posting, which is well worth a [...]
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12 Jun 10 at 6:19 am
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Rod Liddle Watch « Left Outside said...
2 Aug 10 at 5:25 pm
[...] Complaints commission, and before hand had been repeatedly eviscerated by Five Chinese Crackers, Charlotte Gore, Sunny Hundal and… well, you get the [...]